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Stay safe .........

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  • Stay safe .........

    SPFDRum - I don't really care how important you think Paul is. But every time he posts, it's another attempt to somehow slam the US fire service. That attitude can kiss my ***.
    You know, of all the posts that probably hurt the most! I remember you Mark coming to me six years ago, on several occasions, and asking for some advice on using 1 3/4" attack lines. Back then you were a very polite and forward thinking firefighter and a useful member of the forum. I looked back today at some of your posts and definitely saw a 'change' over the years in yourown attitude.

    In 2002 you were highlighting, quoting and approving statements by others on the forum about how we will not dishonor LODDs by refusing to learn from their deaths. In 2003 you were enthusiastically supporting a story about an IC who, in your mind, made a 'great decision' by not allowing his firefighters to enter a vacant and condemned building in an offensive approach. You clearly approved his 'risk versus gain' decision. However, by 2006 your view in a post was
    'it's not vacant until we say it is'!
    clearly in support of other posters who were 'slamming' those of us suggesting some greater element of caution in approaching vacant buildings 'offensively'.

    Then in 2006 you used the word 'sallies' to describe those of us who were more supportive of the 'safety camp' as opposed to those who you would 'trust to have covering your back'. Mark if you knew the guys I have served with over 30+ years they would assure you, I would be the first one watching your back.

    Mark I understand how we may all change our views over time and I don't have a problem with that. I do find it sad that you can appear so influenced by the macho 'back slapping' crew on these forums who have developed into a little 'click' that seem to get their rocks off on attacking; name calling; verbally abusing; arguing without any logic or reasoning; misinterpreting other peoples statements and generally causing mayhem as they spread their drivel across other peoples threads (my apologies where I became involved).

    FyredUp too used to be a genuinely great guy! He was always to the point, blunt yes (no problem with that) but so full of knowledge and always setting a good example to younger or lesser experienced firefighters. What happened Don! Where has all this useless wasted energy on the keyboard come from!

    I want to make this my final statement on the forum after eight great years here. I met some real good friends and had some laughs. I learned a lot from you and enjoyed the genuine debates. If I you don't always agree with me thats fine 'cos I don't always agree with you either It was never ever my intention to give the impression that I am 'attacking' or 'slamming' US firefighters! I cannot, for the life of me, see how anyone has derived that from my posts.

    My main issue has been pure frustration born out of watching so many great people lose their lives .... because when you write an article .... or a book .... or post information on the website .... about simple basic rules to follow at fires; things to do but more often than not, things not to do; and still see the same errors .... over and again .... I just don't know anymore.

    We can't prevent all LODD of course we can't but I am deeply saddened when I think of how so many fail to see that there are ways .... simple cost effective ways .... to reduce these terrible tragedies. I know I tend to concentrate on traumatic LODD causes but that is my area!

    I don't enjoy the atmosphere or quality of debate on these forums anymore so I am happy to pull the plug and find other things to do Maybe some of you should too!

    This post will fade into oblivion in a few short hours but I hope I haven't left with too many enemies! Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to e-mail me over the past week or two. Good luck if you stay here and I hope you can make some sense of the slap-stick and drivel!

    That's all I want to say .... other than stay safe .... take care brothers .... all of you.

    www.firetactics.com
    Euro Firefighter 2008 - Strategy & Tactics from the World's Firegrounds

  • #2
    Paul,

    I saw the title of this topic and knew it was a farewell message amd so I took you off ignore to post one last time to you.

    I have repeatedly over the years tried to tell you that the message you have is good and valuable, most times it is your style and posture that turns people off. Frankly, how many people have to tell you that it appears you are repeatedly slamming the US fire service before you listen?

    I don't think you need to leave and I don't want you to leave. I have chosen simply to not particiapte with your topics anymore and I will ask those that don't like what you have to say to do the same. The endless slamming, off hand comments, condescending remarks and plain nastiness from all sides is counterproductive.

    Take care paul, it is truly a shame it has come to this.

    Don
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

    Comment


    • #3
      Paul,
      I can only echo Fyred's words.... its a shame it has come to this and you have to go. On balance I am sure the place will worse for not having you here, but your decision is final. I saw this coming and I think I alluded to it in a post a few weeks back.

      Look after yourself Bruv and we will no doubt talk elsewhere...
      Steve
      Steve Dude
      IACOJ member
      www.fireservice.co.uk

      London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


      'Irony'... It's a British thing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Paul, I for one am sorry to see you go.

        Quite honestly, there are several people on this board that I wouldn't mind getting to know over a couple of beers. FyredUp, the career FF from S Jersey who volunteers in Delaware (whose name currently escapes me), the FF from wildwood (another whose name escapes me) Chief Woods, Weruj and a bunch of the Ohioans, D/C Gonzo among numerous others. and when the IACOJ meeting hits NYC, I hope I will be able to do that.

        Then there are those who I would love to sit in on a training sessions that they were teaching, and you would be near the top of that list. There are a lot of super smart guys on these forums, some very experienced guys that can pass on a lot of what they know to us youngins. Hell, I would even sit in on one of Norm's arson investigation lectures, because while he might have the personality of a toad, I don't think there is anyone on these boards who has more arson investigative knowledge then him. I may not agree with what you are teaching, but I'm open to seeing how it can be applied in my neck of the woods.

        Don't let your frustration get the best of you. We all have had heated arguments over the past few years, said things we shouldn't have, and sometimes you get to beat someone up, while other times you are the one getting beat it. It happens to all of us. Sometimes you are popular, other times not.

        If you want to take a break, got for it. I know sometimes the people on here (myself included) can be a little frustrating at times, and can make you want to just walk away. That's the easy way out. The challenging way is to stay on, keep writing and keep being the little guy. You prob won't convince the 25 year veteran to change his ways, but when the 3-5 year vet becomes an officer in 10 years, he might put what you suggest into practice.

        contrary to what you believe, most of the people on fh.com aren't active posters, and many do read and learn from what you write. Don't let a small vocal minority cause you to stop doing something you enjoy.

        and if you do decide to still walk away, stay safe.

        ---Dan
        If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

        FF/EMT/DBP

        Comment


        • #5
          Good grief, man...don't let those guys get to you. They treat everyone they disagree with the same way. Stand your ground and tell 'em to **** off. They don't like me, and I don't like them...and I could care less. They both get emotional faster than a teenage girl on her first period. I enjoy reading your work, even though I don't participate that much in the discussions. You raise issues that needle their insecurities and egos, and that's what bothers them the most. Keep it coming, I say.
          Member IACOJ

          Comment


          • #6
            I remember you Mark coming to me six years ago, on several occasions, and asking for some advice on using 1 3/4" attack lines.
            I do to, especially your pulsing the knob. Something I stated was taught in the US Navy for compartmental fires. It was an excellent discussion, and the many of the positives and faults of proper and improper use of a fog nozzle. At the time, it was fairly radical thinking, especially for outside of shipboard firefighting. The stuff I learned from that discussion has been invaluable.
            In 2002 you were highlighting, quoting and approving statements by others on the forum about how we will not dishonor LODDs by refusing to learn from their deaths.
            My views on that haven't change either. I still print out relevant LODD for review at my house and when I instruct. The particular LODD report just became available and I felt it was the way you presented it to be disrespectful. I feel you used that particular example to find fault in that departments ventilation of the structure-which was NOT a factor in the dealth. Once that was ironed out, the ventilation discussion that followed was excellent.
            In 2003 you were enthusiastically supporting a story about an IC who, in your mind, made a 'great decision' by not allowing his firefighters to enter a vacant and condemned building in an offensive approach. You clearly approved his 'risk versus gain' decision.
            My quote: 'it's not vacant until we say it is'!
            Well, in my system, the IC is one of WE. So again, I stand by my statement.
            Then in 2006 you used the word 'sallies' to describe those of us who were more supportive of the 'safety camp' as opposed to those who you would 'trust to have covering your back'.
            And to the likes of lafireeducator and those that think alike, the farce that all risk and danger can be eliminated, they still are. I operate under the believe that there are inherent risks involved in my job to accomplish 2 of the most important tasks I am charged with- SEARCH and RESCUE. I train and learn with that in mind. It's the safety sallies advocating stopping for green lights or those that think lobbing water from the safety of the street is acceptable, I have a problem with.
            So if I am the reason for you to leave the forums, I am truly saddened by that decission. My beef was with my perception of the last few threads of you taking the high horse and mocking our tactics.
            Paul, never once have I questioned your ability, intelligence, dedication, or Brotherhood. I won't start now. I apologize for offending you and here, on the forums, ask that you reconsider your decision to leave. Your knowledge is to valuable not to be heard.

            Yours in Comradeship,
            Mark
            My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
            "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
            George Mason
            Co-author of the Second Amendment
            during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
            Elevator Rescue Information

            Comment


            • #7
              Paul, I wish you the best if you have decided to leave. I thought your topics and discussions regarding firefighting tactics to be both educational and insightful and will miss them. I visit your website frequently and hope you will continue to provide information with your website on tactics and strategy for all to use.

              Take care.
              SFPD Member MABAS Division 47
              Told my wife I'm at work. Told my boss I'm sick. I'm really at the fire station.
              I.A.C.O.J.

              Comment


              • #8
                Mark, aka SPFDRum..

                Excellent post.
                Great minds think alike.
                ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mr Grimwood, unknowingly to you I have been a student of yours (as well as others) for years. The common thread that I see in your teachings is that one must accomplish very dangerous tasks as safely as possible. I share your frustration in reading about all of the LODD’s that are happening for seemingly very similar reasons and wonder why they are allowed to continue.

                  Every day I touch wood by tapping my head and prey that I am going to be good enough on this particular day to make the right decisions to keep my Brothers safe and give the people in dire need the best possible chance of leading a normal life after the emergency is over. I know that one thing I must try to do every time is keep my emotions in check and not get too high or too low to make as rational a decision as I possibly can. I wonder sometimes while reading these threads that if some people get as emotionally charged as they do in a controlled environment such as this forum, how do they react on the fireground when the $hit hits the fan.

                  All of the career departments out there have the “luxury” of being able to train every day either in the classroom or on the job. The reality of the situation for the small vollie departments is that we can only train when our job and family graciously grants us the time and even then we take much more. When the pager tones go off we’re expected to and accept the challenge of whatever happens to be thrown at us and operate at as high of a professional level as anyone.

                  Personally I believe that I was put on this planet to raise a family and to be a firefighter in a small town. Although the NFPA 1001 program and other formal training courses have proven invaluable, there is much more to learn. Jakes like you, Dalmation90, CaptainGonzo, Nmfire, Chief Woods, the NYFD guys like FFFred, and a long list of others have helped me become a better firefighter in the little speck of the world where I was put.

                  I am sure that there are a lot more folks like me out there that are going to be saddened by your decision to leave this great training facility. Feel free to come over to the Canadian or Volunteer forum to “bash” us. Although some including myself may not agree on a particular day or have the resources and manpower, the point of view will at least be somewhere in the back of our minds. There’s a much better chance that we’re actually going to learn something valuable. Personally I can’t see where being an aggressive, safety conscious firefighter is a bad thing. Like Kenny Rogers said, “you have to know when to hold them and you have to know when to fold them”. Hopefully you decide to stick around here because I’m always in need of knowledge to take back to hive.

                  Stay Safe
                  firefighter1962

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by firefighter1962 View Post
                    Mr Grimwood, unknowingly to you I have been a student of yours (as well as others) for years. The common thread that I see in your teachings is that one must accomplish very dangerous tasks as safely as possible. I share your frustration in reading about all of the LODD’s that are happening for seemingly very similar reasons and wonder why they are allowed to continue.

                    Every day I touch wood by tapping my head and prey that I am going to be good enough on this particular day to make the right decisions to keep my Brothers safe and give the people in dire need the best possible chance of leading a normal life after the emergency is over. I know that one thing I must try to do every time is keep my emotions in check and not get too high or too low to make as rational a decision as I possibly can. I wonder sometimes while reading these threads that if some people get as emotionally charged as they do in a controlled environment such as this forum, how do they react on the fireground when the $hit hits the fan.

                    All of the career departments out there have the “luxury” of being able to train every day either in the classroom or on the job. The reality of the situation for the small vollie departments is that we can only train when our job and family graciously grants us the time and even then we take much more. When the pager tones go off we’re expected to and accept the challenge of whatever happens to be thrown at us and operate at as high of a professional level as anyone.

                    Personally I believe that I was put on this planet to raise a family and to be a firefighter in a small town. Although the NFPA 1001 program and other formal training courses have proven invaluable, there is much more to learn. Jakes like you, Dalmation90, CaptainGonzo, Nmfire, Chief Woods, the NYFD guys like FFFred, and a long list of others have helped me become a better firefighter in the little speck of the world where I was put.

                    I am sure that there are a lot more folks like me out there that are going to be saddened by your decision to leave this great training facility. Feel free to come over to the Canadian or Volunteer forum to “bash” us. Although some including myself may not agree on a particular day or have the resources and manpower, the point of view will at least be somewhere in the back of our minds. There’s a much better chance that we’re actually going to learn something valuable. Personally I can’t see where being an aggressive, safety conscious firefighter is a bad thing. Like Kenny Rogers said, “you have to know when to hold them and you have to know when to fold them”. Hopefully you decide to stick around here because I’m always in need of knowledge to take back to hive.

                    Stay Safe
                    firefighter1962
                    I agree 100%. I've not been here long but have been in the service 10 years and around it for 38 ( that I can remember). I may not always ask a question but can always find an answer. I for one hope you deside to stay. I will never know it all but with brothers like you and other to guide us and make us think we all get a little closer. Please don't go, as a Lt. I still have alot to learn.
                    GFD748 First in... Last out.. Everyone goes home.... Do the best job you can and do it safely

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Paul ....

                      It's a sad day when a few folks who simply don't understand that we need to change the way the fire service,and especially the American fire service, operate can run off someone like you. The fact is simply that the old mentality of saving life and property at all costs simply does not work anymore and needs to change. Unfortunatly, there are still those who live by the old mentality and refuse to change it for a variety of so-called reasons.

                      I will miss your honest, common sense approach to reducing firefighter fatalities. I will miss your style of calling a spade a spade when it comes to tactics that risk firefighters lives for little or no gain. I will miss your ability to cut through the macho BS that makes the fireground a much more dangerous place than it needs to be.

                      I wish you would reconsider but I understand your frustration. When even simple ideas such as reducing apparatus speed, better intersection management and debunking the old theory that all fires need to be attacked are mocked on a regular basis, I know it takes a toll.

                      I beleive there are enough members of the new generation that can be trained not to take the unessecary risks that I used to take, and still see many taking today. You can help shape that new generation, but I understand your decision. Good Luck brother, and stay safe.
                      Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-28-2007, 11:50 AM. Reason: Oppppppssss .. Spelling error
                      Train to fight the fires you fight.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I will miss your honest, common sense approach to reducing firefighter mentalities.
                        Nuff said.

                        He is choosing to leave. That is his choice. The world will contine and so will discussions on firehouse.com

                        Good Luck to you and stay safe as well.
                        "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Paul,

                          I certainly echo what many other here have already said. Your knowledge and passion for the job will be sorely missed here. I'm sure most of us and as is apparent here, that regardless of individual posts, no one here wants you to leave.
                          Often we are so protective of our LODD's and depts that suffer them, we lose sight of the goal to learn from them and hopefully prevent similar tragedies. While we don't see a reduction inthe overall LODD's in the US and even the causes remain tragically similar, many of us have learned plenty.
                          If one firefighter learned about cooling ceiling gases by staying up late looking into this idiot box, you've had a positive impact that no number of negative posts can erase. From posting question to make us think, to drawing out our thoughts, theories and training on fire attack, rapid fire growth or ventialtion there have had some very enlightening debates. Almost every one of them has made most of us think. This alone is worth some of the BS.
                          My only hope is that your true reason for leaving is to spend more time working productively on the things we've come to know is your passion.

                          Thank you for the years of enligtenment and brain stirring.

                          Stay Safe Brother.
                          Last edited by RFDACM02; 07-27-2007, 05:01 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                            Paul ....

                            I will miss your honest, common sense approach to reducing firefighter mentalities.
                            LA--I think you're a bit mixed up.... it's reading HotTrotter's posts that reduce "Firefighter Mentality".
                            My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

                            IACOJ--West Coast PITA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by the1141man View Post
                              LA--I think you're a bit mixed up.... it's reading HotTrotter's posts that reduce "Firefighter Mentality".
                              Now why drag me in??? I will say this much, no building, no sturcture, no vehicle, is worth a life.

                              Paul, it will suck that you are leaving. Your knowledge and common sense was a good offset to some of the goofy rants that go on here. Fortunatley, firehouse.com is not representative of the real world. Having realized that, you treat what you hear on this site as nothing more than playground chatter.

                              Comment

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