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Fired for whistle-blowing in N.C.

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  • #16
    I agree 100% with FyredUp.

    Don't shoot a guy down for wanting to become a better firefighter and not participate in illegal activities.

    I almost feel stupid trying to defend this guy, because I don't understand how anyone could not be on his side...
    Get busy livin, or get busy dyin. - Shawshank Redemption
    IACOJ

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Catch22 View Post
      Not that I totally disagree with ChicagoFF, but what's to say this guy didn't want a better department and did what he could and voiced his opinion about what would make it a better department. Complaining about lack of training while the firefighters are stuck doing landscaping is now out of line in my book. Depending on the structure of this combo dept., he may have been considered a supervisor or leader within the department. Nothing wrong at all for trying to make improvements.

      I don't disagree with his actions in regards to the illegal burn, either. He protested and refused to participate in an illegal action. Had this been a union local as opposed to a single firefighter, I think several here would be up in arms, as unions protest illegal and inappropriate actions by governments and FD admins all the time. I'd venture to say any number of locals would have a fit about guys being pulled from the station and/or job to do landscaping.

      The way I see it... landscaping isn't in my job description.

      To Chicago FF.. if you were pulled off a rig to go get some "good soil" from the Commish's house, would you not file a grievenace faster than Da Bears QB fumbling the football?
      ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
      Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
        The way I see it... landscaping isn't in my job description.

        To Chicago FF.. if you were pulled off a rig to go get some "good soil" from the Commish's house, would you not file a grievenace faster than Da Bears QB fumbling the football?
        Had to go there didn't you gonzo

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        • #19
          ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department I am associated with****

          I know both FF's that got canned, they for the most part are stand up guys. The department in question, more so their leadership is shady has hell. They don't do any training there, and I mean any, this is to include preplans. This is not the first and won't be the last time that houses have mysteriously burnt up in their district.

          Jason asked questions after he saw what the paid guys at his combo department where he vols at were doing, ie the training during the day, preplans, hydrant maintenence, and wanted to know why they didn't do that type of stuff at Eastern Wake. I can see how ChicagoFF might see Jason as a rat, or cry baby, but he isn't that way. What that story doesn't tell is how he was made to take off his uniform in the wash bay at 1130pm and go to the house. Jason didn't rat anyone out, he did say that he didn't want any part of the burning. Allen (who was the other FF fired) was the one that called the fire marshal's office. He did so anyomimously (sp?) and was found out when the Chief pulled the 911 phone tapes and recognized his voice.

          One other small detail is that word coming out of the department is that the board president asked the chief for this to be done, not the other way around. You know something fishy is up when a fire truck pulls up to a burnt vacant house, turns off the fire truck and its lights, and precedes to light the house on fire.


          ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department that I may be associated with****
          Real men wear kilts. www.forourfallen.org

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          • #20
            If they didn't pull the permits, you've got to wonder how much else they did for planning. Certainly it wasn't for training if the description of the house having been previously damaged was true.

            BTW...there was another link on those pages...

            East Wake FD's station sits TWO BLOCKS away from another station. Sounds like a neighboring city incorporated right around it and they respond through the incorporated areas to reach the unincorporated district.

            In a word, FUBAR every way you look at it.

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            • #21
              ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department I am associated with****

              Originally posted by Dalmatian190 View Post

              East Wake FD's station sits TWO BLOCKS away from another station. Sounds like a neighboring city incorporated right around it and they respond through the incorporated areas to reach the unincorporated district.

              In a word, FUBAR every way you look at it.
              This would be true. A couple of years ago the town of Knightdale decided to form their own department and not contract with Eastern Wake any longer. This left an Eastern Wake fire station inside of town limits and one outside. Now if Eastern Wake gets a fire and needs mutuial aid, they will call for another department to respond from somewhere around 5-10 miles away instead of the town department which might be 2 miles or less away due to the fact that the admin has hurt feelings and doesn't want any part of the town any longer.


              ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department I am associated with****
              Real men wear kilts. www.forourfallen.org

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by GFDLT1 View Post
                ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department I am associated with****

                I know both FF's that got canned, they for the most part are stand up guys. The department in question, more so their leadership is shady has hell. They don't do any training there, and I mean any, this is to include preplans. This is not the first and won't be the last time that houses have mysteriously burnt up in their district.

                Jason asked questions after he saw what the paid guys at his combo department where he vols at were doing, ie the training during the day, preplans, hydrant maintenence, and wanted to know why they didn't do that type of stuff at Eastern Wake. I can see how ChicagoFF might see Jason as a rat, or cry baby, but he isn't that way. What that story doesn't tell is how he was made to take off his uniform in the wash bay at 1130pm and go to the house. Jason didn't rat anyone out, he did say that he didn't want any part of the burning. Allen (who was the other FF fired) was the one that called the fire marshal's office. He did so anyomimously (sp?) and was found out when the Chief pulled the 911 phone tapes and recognized his voice.

                One other small detail is that word coming out of the department is that the board president asked the chief for this to be done, not the other way around. You know something fishy is up when a fire truck pulls up to a burnt vacant house, turns off the fire truck and its lights, and precedes to light the house on fire.


                ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department that I may be associated with****
                I'll have to take your word for it then, but this comment still sticks out

                I was warned before I filled out my application about that place and I don’t pass judgment, but I should have. There’s a whole bunch of stuff that we should have been doing that we don’t, like training.
                It sounds like he knew what he was getting into. But if you say he's not a crybaby, then ok. There is still the major problem (in my eyes) of the rat out. Not too many things justify that move in my book. We'll see
                I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                Comment


                • #23
                  I dont think these guys are "Rats". They were not ratting out fellow firemen. they were reporting a screwed up situation regarding their management. I will take the firemens side over managements until proven otherwise.
                  IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT View Post
                    I dont think these guys are "Rats". They were not ratting out fellow firemen. they were reporting a screwed up situation regarding their management. I will take the firemens side over managements until proven otherwise.
                    This guy was a candidate and in six months he managed to join a department he knew didn't train much, complain that they didn't do the training he wanted, somehow get involved in ratting out his department (which we all know hurts everyone - not just management) and tops it all off by blabing to the press. Not a real good start in my mind. Imagine this guy as a candidate on your outfit Mikey - I'm sure it would go smooth....
                    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Candidates should keep their yaps shut. The leaders of the department seem like ****** bags.
                      IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
                        The way I see it... landscaping isn't in my job description.

                        To Chicago FF.. if you were pulled off a rig to go get some "good soil" from the Commish's house, would you not file a grievenace faster than Da Bears QB fumbling the football?
                        This may come as a shock to some, but I have done plenty of landscaping around our house. It's my house and I'm happy to help improve it. I have even - gasp - come in on my off day to help with house improvements. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in your house and taking time to improve it.

                        P.S. The colts wern't doing such a good job of holding on to the ball either!
                        I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT View Post
                          The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Candidates should keep their yaps shut. The leaders of the department seem like ****** bags.
                          Agreed.............
                          I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ChicagoFF View Post
                            This may come as a shock to some, but I have done plenty of landscaping around our house. It's my house and I'm happy to help improve it. I have even - gasp - come in on my off day to help with house improvements. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in your house and taking time to improve it.

                            P.S. The colts wern't doing such a good job of holding on to the ball either!
                            I can't argue with you one bit (on either point ). I've done the same thing at my stations. However, especially since guys that seem to know the situation there have spoken, it's a little different deal when it's to benefit one of the board members and taking the guy away from the truck to haul the dirt. What would have happened if he had been at the board member's home loading the dirt and an alarm came in and the truck was short a man because of it?

                            Like Mikey, I don't see him as a rat. Apparantly he was't the one that dropped the dime (I think someone posted it was the other guy?), but I wouldn't have blamed him if he did. They went to a board member's burned out rental house at 2300, poured it with gas, and then lit it? That's not training, that's demolition, especially if the house was 95% burned, as the board member stated.

                            Hopefully the department will benefit from a new board and new admin. It's a shame the chief didn't have the cajones to stand up to this guy and tell him no in the first place.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              This may come as a shock to some, but I have done plenty of landscaping around our house. It's my house and I'm happy to help improve it. I have even - gasp - come in on my off day to help with house improvements. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in your house and taking time to improve it.
                              yes, but at the cost of reducing staffing on the apparatus? I think there's a difference

                              Hopefully the department will benefit from a new board and new admin. It's a shame the chief didn't have the cajones to stand up to this guy and tell him no in the first place.
                              hasn't happened in the past, and probably won't happen in the future... This department seems to be the "teflon don" of this county, they have gotten away with a lot of things in the past. The Chief works for the President of the board and both are just as responsible. This is not the first time this department has been in the news for "wrong doings." There was a multiple page report written back in 2002 about this department and its financial management that led to the local town discontinuing its contract with them and forming their own fire department.

                              There is a long history of this department doing "not the right thing" in many different situations...

                              Hopefully this can bring about some change... but haha... I doubt it, the good ole boy system is alive and well for this side of the county.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Why are some here so quick to overlook the fact that this FD sounds like it has some real internal problems.

                                1) Knowingly engaging in an illegal activity. They did not get the necessary permits or do asbestos abatement before burning down the remainder of the house.

                                2) If they doused the house with gasoline and just burned the rest of it down there was no training involved and certainly no compliance with accepted standards for live fire training. I would say they didn't follow NFPA 1403 but that would start another debate. The whole thing stinks if you ask me...training at 2300 hours? A live fire exercise? Please...what a joke.

                                3) There is a HUGE difference between doing some landscaping around the station and driving a dump truck around town to get dirt from lots owned by your chief. Actually ChicagoFF I am astounded that you would come in OFF Duty to do work around the station.

                                4) Of course a probie should keep his mouth shut...but not to the point of doing what he knows is illegal. Not to the point of not expecting to be trained to do the job he was hired to do. Not even to the point of going along with established good old boy policies if they are just plain BS and wrong. Sorry if that isn't how some of you perceive the fire service but I would prefer firefighters who will stand up for what is right. This whole thing sounds like a hatchet job by a Chief and Board that don't want their personal needs to be interfered with by someone who actually wants to be a firefighter.

                                5) Why was going to the press wrong in this case? He was fired and in my mind wrongfully so. Maybe it is time some of this crap came out for the entire community to see so they can determine if this is what they want their fire department to be doing.

                                Hmmmmm.....interesting how some are so quick to character assasinate these guys. Perhaps, we should wait for more to come out on this story. Nah...what would be the fun in that.

                                FyredUp
                                Crazy, but that's how it goes
                                Millions of people living as foes
                                Maybe it's not too late
                                To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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