Annex or Burn

[GFD09LD255]

First, let me just say hiii to everyone on the forums. I’ve been coming here the last two years and have learned a lot so far, so thank you.

Okay, I was wondering what firefighters thought of a situation that has been going on in my town for the last couple of months.

Basically, my town has county islands, which are unincorporated parts of our town, that were here before the town was. They have always received their fire service from Rural/Metro. In October, Rural/Metro pulled out of the county islands, (I think from lack of subscriptions) leaving county islands with no fire service. The county islanders, had the option to annex into the town, or form there own fire district. For some reason, they were not able to form there own fire district, and most of the county islanders did not annex. The county islanders tried to pass a legislation that would require the town to provide fire service, but that didn’t work either. (Sorry, about being so vague but this all started a while ago and I can’t find the articles anymore.)

Now since October the county islanders have had no fire service, and the mayor has said that the town will not respond to emergencies on county islands. Last week my town did respond to a house fire on a county island but it was in another town and it was for a mutual aid agreement that they used to have. The mayor was mad and just said that the homeowners got lucky.

I hope to be a firefighter one day, but I’m not sure what I think of this situation, and was hoping maybe I could get some insight from firefighters on this issue.

Thanks for any responses in advance

[MalahatTwo7]

Sorry. I can't offer anything constructive to your situation, other than to say...

Good luck and best wishes for an equitable solution for everyone.

And that I hope no one gets dead because of political BS. Although on a more positive note, it might create some motivation with the Powers That Be. Just hope it wont come to that. That all being said, I did find this....

http://www.ci.gilbert.az.us/popups/a...on/default.cfm

No Cost Annexation Opportunity Extended

The Gilbert Council has acted to assist County Island residents who may have been relying on the provisions of a law that has been declared unconstitutional for their future emergency and fire response services.

The Gilbert Council at its May 23, 2006 meeting approved Policy 2006-3, which kept all of the same provisions of Policy 2006-2, but extended the window for assisted, no cost annexations for county islands to June 30, 2006.The previous deadline was February 28, 2006.

Gilbert also successfully negotiated a 90 day extension of the mutual aid agreement with Rural Metro to September 30, 2006.

This extended opportunity was in direct response to concerns by Council that Judge Campbell’s ruling May 3, 2006 finding the County Island Fire District law unconstitutional was leaving some county island residents without an option.

Councilmembers continue to be deeply concerned that some county island residents were relying on the County Island Fire District to provide ongoing fire and emergency response. Opponents of annexation have been and continue to promote the now illegal and enjoined Fire District as an option for services.

Persons interested in annexation should contact Tanya Castro in the Planning Department at 480-503-6742.
-----
County Island Annexation & Fire Service Information

Rural Metro advised Gilbert, and hopefully those affected residents on November 1, 2005, that they would no longer offer subscription service to County Island residents in the Gilbert Planning Area after June 30, 2006. This brought to an end the unique mutual aid relationship between Gilbert and Rural Metro which has been in existence the past ten years. Gilbert had agreed to provide emergency service responses when Rural Metro requested assistance, in exchange for Rural Metro compensating Gilbert for those services. This change leaves County Islands residents with no emergency response service after June 30, 2006.

Gilbert is prepared to work with you and your neighbors to gather information on understanding your options on emergency services. Gilbert is offering annexation to allow you and your neighbors to receive emergency medical, fire, and police services. Annexation, in a best case calendar, takes at least 145 days to complete, so understanding what this means to your property and family will require timely consideration. 145 days from June 30, 2006 is February 6, 2006.

There were more links to view, but this I guess is the gist of it.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Unfortunately, it wil take someone dying to get this political BS flushed away.

I think that annexation is your best bet.

[hwoods]

I'll Try Again.............

I've posted my opinion of this kind of crap about 294,839,042.7 times before, but I still feel the same way today: Every Fire Station should protect whatever it is closer to than any other station. Period. No excuses. No political boundaries, No zip codes, No districts, NO NOTHING. The closest station handles the call. Been that way (mostly) in this area for 50 years or longer. I was approaching a small town in Delaware yesterday afternoon, and heard the Station siren sounding, so I slowed down and looked to see what was going on. A Pumper pulled out and started down the road ahead of me and soon rolled across the State line into Maryland. After a couple of miles I lost them, seems they must have turned off the highway without me seeing where they went. Anyway, the point is that an engine from Delaware ran a call in Maryland without even thinking about it. This is normal, day to day operations here. And that is how it should be. Before anyone asks, No, money is not considered. Money, or lack thereof, is not involved in figuring out who protects what. Now, (with apologies to Paul Harvey) Page 2: People with titles like Mayor, Councilman, Trustee, Supervisor, Commissioner, Etc, should be legally barred from having any control over Fire protection operations. Period. In Maryland, if a Mayor tried to prevent a piece of apparatus from responding out of town, he'd be in jail. Or damn close to it. There is simply no excuse for for the BS that goes on today in some parts of the country regarding Fire Protection. And, Operators like Rural Metro should not be allowed to exist.

[robbie1492]

Not a chance. sounds great but won't happen

Work on a suburban department where our engine, truck, and ambulance would have been first in on a call where 5 kids dended up dying, for a metro department. They won't call us and we won't call them, no doubt in my mind it is wrong, but that is the way it works.
In the old days(before mutual aid) we used to help each other all the time but that is a thing of the past!!!!!

[cozmosis]

I almost agree completely with Chief Woods' long-standing belief that the closest unit should roll regardless of political boundaries. I say almost because I worked for an understaffed fire department.

It has been suggested by some citizens that we could handle the easy stuff and use the closest stations from neighboring departments to handle working fires so that we don't have to "waste all that money" on additional personnel. I think that for a boundary-less system to work well, then departments need to give as good as they get... And that wouldn't neccessarily the case for us at this time.

With all of that said, if someone calls us to help them... We don't say no. A year or so ago, we received a medical call at a strange address -- an address that was not in our district. We advised dispatch to pass it on to the neighboring city because it should have been their call. The neighboring department passed it back to us because they said it was ours. We rolled. We weren't going to go back-and-forth all night.

It turns out that the residence was located in a small island of land unincorporated and separate from our city and our neighbors -- North Little Rock. This island of land was protected by a volunteer fire department whose station was the FOURTH closest -- three other stations were closer but were not first due because of political boundary. Unfortunately, that still remains the case today. No one learned any lessons from that night.

[MalahatTwo7]

Not a chance. sounds great but won't happen

Work on a suburban department where our engine, truck, and ambulance would have been first in on a call where 5 kids dended up dying, for a metro department. They won't call us and we won't call them, no doubt in my mind it is wrong, but that is the way it works.
In the old days(before mutual aid) we used to help each other all the time but that is a thing of the past!!!!!

Robbie, that is just not cool at all for the residents in your areas. Too much "Cowboy" stuff going on about calling on or not calling on others for assistance. Even more tragic when there is death. Granted death may not have been preventable either way, but I am very glad I wasn't the one who had to explain that one to the families.

Sadly such things happen in Canada too. A few years ago, in a very rural area, a RV caught fire, and 911 dispatched an engine crew to deal with it. The crew hit their "mile marker" and stopped - about a mile away from the incident. The RV was in "BC Forestry's AOR" - and there were no MA agreements, so the engine stopped. The real unfortunate part of this event is that the RV fire then sparked off a fairly significant forest fire......

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

There are also cases where unincorporated areas wish to remain unincorporated because they do not want to pay anything for services, but expect that their incorporated neighbors will come to the rescue.

There are departments that take mutual aid but won't return it... should the taxpayers of East Overshoe pay for West Overshoe's fire protection?

There are also some departments that have tried to undermine their neighbors ( that's a whole other can of the proverbial worms)

There are ****ing conrtests between chiefs, too.. over arguments that happened years before.. and damn if I am calling ABC FD... I'l call QRS FD and they will drive right past ABC.. that will **** them off ( insert evil laugh smiley icon here...)

If you wanna dance, you have to pay the band... one way or another.

[randsc]

I've posted my opinion of this kind of crap about 294,839,042.7 times before, but I still feel the same way today: Every Fire Station should protect whatever it is closer to than any other station. Period. No excuses. No political boundaries, No zip codes, No districts, NO NOTHING. The closest station handles the call. Been that way (mostly) in this area for 50 years or longer. I was approaching a small town in Delaware yesterday afternoon, and heard the Station siren sounding, so I slowed down and looked to see what was going on. A Pumper pulled out and started down the road ahead of me and soon rolled across the State line into Maryland. After a couple of miles I lost them, seems they must have turned off the highway without me seeing where they went. Anyway, the point is that an engine from Delaware ran a call in Maryland without even thinking about it. This is normal, day to day operations here. And that is how it should be. Before anyone asks, No, money is not considered. Money, or lack thereof, is not involved in figuring out who protects what. Now, (with apologies to Paul Harvey) Page 2: People with titles like Mayor, Councilman, Trustee, Supervisor, Commissioner, Etc, should be legally barred from having any control over Fire protection operations. Period. In Maryland, if a Mayor tried to prevent a piece of apparatus from responding out of town, he'd be in jail. Or damn close to it. There is simply no excuse for for the BS that goes on today in some parts of the country regarding Fire Protection. And, Operators like Rural Metro should not be allowed to exist.

I also agree with ALMOST all of this, but not all. If by "control over fire protection operations" you mean actual fireground ops, of course qualified personnel and not politicoes should be in charge.

However, policy and procedure can and should be subject to review. We are in public service, and for better or worse, those political types are the official voice of the public. In public policy setting, you sometimes hear references to an "aristocracy of the robe", which is the notion that policy should be determined by those who wear the robes of a particular expertise. Aristocracies, whether of the robe or the sword, are antithetical to democracy.

Would you approve of allowing the military to operate with civilian control? Should the decision of whether to go to war rest with the generals and admirals? Or should the will of the people be considered?

What I agree with is some system of automatic aid that results in the closest piece rolling on every call.

[Rescue101]

Harve,your thought process is politically incorrect.......THANK GOD. There have been some mutterings in our area too,seems to make a difference who's life/property hangs in the balance.If it's a selectman or well to do townsperson it's one thing,if it's not then the priorities seem to shift.Not the way my sentiments run.If you need it,I'll sent it.If it starts leaving us lean,we'll get get outside coverage.Oh,by the way,you think like one of those "old"world experienced Fire chiefs,Hehe T.C.

[neiowa]

Now, (with apologies to Paul Harvey) Page 2: People with titles like Mayor, Councilman, Trustee, Supervisor, Commissioner, Etc, should be legally barred from having any control over Fire protection operations.

Is it OK if I continue to carry issue radio/pager and respond to fires and 1st responder pages, write the grants, work the DOD/FEPP surplus system, turn over rocks/milk the system looking for additional $, maintain gear/equipment, attend/rep at county/state Fire/Emerg Mgmt meetings, drive/operate the trucks or hoses when the chief points at me (my business is in town and close to the station so usually 1st one in the station), etc etc etc?

Here's a better idea. How about asking your Mayor, city manager, council members what function of the city is more important that public safety and why they have not joined the FD? Providing Fire and Law Enforcement area the 1st REQUIRED functions of a city. As vol. cops has limited practicality why aren't members of your city gov't on the FD???? Might muck up your gears is wrong answer. You want accountability, works both ways; so recruit them, train them, educate them, and put them to work. You might just get a vote in your pocket at the next budget meeting.

Mayor
Vol FF

[SamuelFire]

When you pay for nothing don't be suprised when that is what you get.

[LCFD302]

It is a sad situation when politics get involved in life safety. I do understand how some of it happens, expecting other depts. to respond to a call in anothers area, so as not to have to pay for the service. The citys, towns, county have a duty to their tax payers first. That being said I would be very hardended not to respond to someone in need of protection. Politics do have to have a place, but when life safety is an issue we have to put aside the politics take care of the task at hand, deal with the issues when all is said and done. (whew sound like a politician).

[GFD09LD255]

When you pay for nothing don't be suprised when that is what you get.

I don't think I mentioned that in the legislation that they tried to pass, the county islanders wanted to pay the town for fire service, not receive it for free. (I didn't mention that because I couldn’t remember if in the legislation they said it would be a mandatory tax or paid subscription to the town.) It ended up being ruled unconstitutional though. They did want to pay for the fire service from town, but it just didn't happen.

Thanks for all the replies.

[hwoods]

Is it OK if I continue to carry issue radio/pager and respond to fires and 1st responder pages, write the grants, work the DOD/FEPP surplus system, turn over rocks/milk the system looking for additional $, maintain gear/equipment, attend/rep at county/state Fire/Emerg Mgmt meetings, drive/operate the trucks or hoses when the chief points at me (my business is in town and close to the station so usually 1st one in the station), etc etc etc?

Here's a better idea. How about asking your Mayor, city manager, council members what function of the city is more important that public safety and why they have not joined the FD? Providing Fire and Law Enforcement area the 1st REQUIRED functions of a city. As vol. cops has limited practicality why aren't members of your city gov't on the FD???? Might muck up your gears is wrong answer. You want accountability, works both ways; so recruit them, train them, educate them, and put them to work. You might just get a vote in your pocket at the next budget meeting.

Mayor
Vol FF

Mr. Mayor, You are Absolutely NOT the type of person referenced in my post above. BTW, As I'm typing this post, one of our members at Glenn Dale is being sworn in to begin a 4 year term as a Maryland State Senator. Those who are Elected to Public Office, AND continue to serve their community as a Volunteer, are indeed a cut above the rest, and I have a great deal of respect for them. The WT seems to have an aversion to the word MUTT, so I won't use it, But my problem is with those who put money before Public Safety, and the "Empire Builders" who have to have absolute control over something that they are totally clueless about. In this part of the country, money is simply not a consideration in the vast majority of operations. Most of the Apparatus and Stations are owned by the Volunteer organizations themselves, not Government, and the only level of Government that does have any influence in Fire/Rescue/EMS matters is the County level. No local Government official in our state can tell a Fire Chief what to do. There are procedures for handling problems, and no one is above oversight, it's just that we don't have the petty "small town" stuff that happens elsewhere.