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  • #16
    We moved from MSA to the ISI Viking with the TEAM package late last year, so far no problems. All major brands were evaluated and tested over a 4 month period. MSA and Scott both make excellant packs it really came down to what the users (my firefighters) prefered. Pluses * Ambient air switch * Mask mounted regulated * excellant heads up display and voice amplifier. The final push over MSA and Scott was the TEAM package.
    [FONT=Times New Roman]Douglas R. Patton
    IACOJ
    "Omnis Cedo Domus"
    I am now a former Chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone.
    Isaiah 6:8

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    • #17
      I typically instruct a basic SCBA class for our regional recruit academy, so I get some exposure to the various brands. The only one that I really dislike is an older generation Survivair. I swear it takes five minutes just to shut the stupid pass off after every use. Gets old very quick doing donning and doffing drills.

      The ISI packs seem to have some great features, and locally - the ISI packs have been a choice for a number of budget limited smaller departments because the dealer here was VERY competitve, and typically sold three packs for the price of two comparable Scott or MSA units. It doesn't take much to see the advantage of that when you have little money.

      We have MSA Firehawks, now with the new accountability system, and for *US* - I feel we made the right choice. MSA priced their product to sell, the accountability program built into the ICM is very cool and once we get 100% into using it will be a great asset on the fireground.

      There will be those folks that swear by Scott, but I still think a lot of that just goes back to the fantastic image that Scott (or as an example Pierce, Morning Pride) have built for themselves. Not saying that any of their products are inferior in any way, but any number of competitors can build something that will work just as well.

      Remember - the new 2007 NFPA standard for SCBAs is coming this fall. Expect LARGE price increases, so if you're looking now, get your ducks in a row to save some money.
      "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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      • #18
        any ideas what kind of earth shattering changes we can expect in the new packs?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by quint1officer View Post
          any ideas what kind of earth shattering changes we can expect in the new packs?
          I know one of the bigger concerns was better protecting the electronics from moisture, which I'm sure will go to some crazy miliary type spec that is complete overkill, increasing the price.

          I spoke to an SCBA repair guy for one of the bigger brands fairly recently, and I know that was one of the things that was going to change. As far as anything else, no clue.

          I'm just glad we have our new packs in service, and won't have to worry about it again for a good long time...
          "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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          • #20
            yeah, I hear ya. Hopefully (cross my fingers) the nxg is the last set of packs we buy for a long time!!!

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            • #21
              As I said, we feel we could have lived with any of the packs. None were bad, but with the high average age on our dept., ease of breathing became a major issue.

              On further consideration, one thing I do not like about the MSA packs is the 'part time' display. That is, the display is not lit all of the time, only when there is a change. So, how do you know if it has failed? There I am, interior attack, and I don't see any lights in my HUD, so I figure evrything is OK. Then my bell goes off. On the ISI (and Scott, and others), if my HUD goes dark (off), I'M OUT OF THERE! [With my partner, of course.}

              Considering that we still had some packs with low pressure hoses in service, and 3 different kinds of PASS devices, this is like going from a 1954 car to a 2007 model. YEEEE HAAAAA! But forget all the bells and whistles, it's just eaiser for my old lungs to breath with the ISI.

              Now, if you had offered us MSA or Scott or whatever for free before I got the grant, we would have been VERY happy with them.

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              • #22
                A single button push can turn the HUD on full-time once you turn the pack on, and I believe the ICM can be programmed to have the HUD on all the time, but I'm not 100% on this.

                A good salesman would have pointed this out I suppose...
                "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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                • #23
                  Who needs the HUD anyway. You are all acting like this is an important feature. This is the SCBA equivilent of heated seats in a car. Maybe it's nice if you have nothing else in the world to worry about, but certainly not needed. How dependent are you on gadgets?
                  I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ChicagoFF View Post
                    Who needs the HUD anyway. You are all acting like this is an important feature. This is the SCBA equivilent of heated seats in a car. Maybe it's nice if you have nothing else in the world to worry about, but certainly not needed. How dependent are you on gadgets?
                    I agree.

                    We had that little HUD "upgrade" put on our packs/masks about a year ago. It's nothing but a PITA! Although the lights are visible in the periphery, I NEVER, EVER notice them. They do me absolutely no good at all. If I want to know what my air supply is, I simply look at my gauge.




                    Kevin
                    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
                    IAFF Local 2339
                    K of C 4th Degree
                    "LEATHER FOREVER"
                    Member I.A.C.O.J.
                    http://www.tfdfire.com/
                    "Fir na tine"

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                    • #25
                      I reason it this way - NFPA now says they have to be there, so you might as well like the one you get...

                      Crutch or not, but I like to turn mine on full-time, and I see it as a constant reminder to regulate my air consumption and try and control my breathing. Us smaller department guys don't get to wear our packs every day in a fire, so we need all the help we can get!
                      "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by npfd801 View Post
                        I reason it this way - NFPA now says they have to be there, so you might as well like the one you get...
                        Are you kidding? They are strong arming small, poor departments into getting this idiotic luxury??? This is yet another example of nfpa at it's worst. Why the hell would they require this of all things??? Because scba manufacturers had run out of other reasons to force departments to upgrade? What a joke, and all you nfpa supporters out there are buying into this line of bulls#it! Literally!
                        I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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                        • #27
                          Not saying I agree with it... Problem is, no one will sell you a non-NFPA complaint SCBA.

                          Just wait for the new 2007 SCBA standard. More changes and requirements, and you can bet more cost...
                          "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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                          • #28
                            NPFD:

                            Joel, you are right about the cost factor, consumers should be prepared to shell out an additional $500-$1000 per unit. This info was provided to me by our manufacturer representative yesterday.

                            Here are a few of the other changes you will see (that I can remember):

                            1) Durability of Electronics-There is going to be a "Hamster" test where the SCBA is subjected to several hours of tumbling in this machine (I believe 3 hrs.) and then the SCBA must perform without a problem.

                            2) PASS Alarm Audibility-You must be able to hear a downed FF's PASS alarm (at a certain audible level) in five different lying positions. SCBA manufacturers will either have to make the PASS alarm extremely loud to accomplish this or put the alarm in multiple locations.

                            3) Increased ability to hear FF's talk with & without a voice amplication system.

                            4) Mandating HUD (yes the actual mandate), HUD was not required in the 2002, but packs had to have multiple forms of warning systems (i.e. HUD, pneumatic or digital readout, whistle, bell, etc......).

                            5) Having the ability to change the pack's cylinder in 30 seconds (who is testing this, a seasoned vet or rookie?).

                            The list goes on and on, but these were the most notable. Also, note that most of the new changes will not be "selling features", meaning it will not be something significant that can be seen from 2002 packs to 2007 packs.


                            Just my two cents!

                            rfd599
                            www.IllinoisFireStore.com

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                            • #29
                              nfpa

                              nfpa= money. its all about money brothers.

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                              • #30
                                Not
                                For
                                Practical
                                Application

                                30 seconds to change a bottle? Is there currently someone's pack out there that can't do this?

                                HUD - I wish mine was not on all the time. It's more of a distraction than anything else. It'd be nice if it only showed when the "level" changed.

                                And no, I don't depend on it at all. And no, I don't need to have it. And yes, I'd be perfectly happy without it.
                                "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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