Tankers

[piercerocks]

If you work in a city where there are hydrents and also you cover a township that has hydrents in a small part of it and your looking into getting a tanker what kind of size tank what type of truck and vacum or regular pump what dont have very many lakes but my idea is that if you equip the truck with 2 drop tanks and you drop one at the hydrent and run a 2 1/2 from the hydrent to the drop tank and let it fill up and i think a vacum tanker could fill by sucking the water out of the drop tank quicker than the hydrent filling it and after ur full just keep filling the drop tank so after you dump and come back its full again.

[THEFIRENUT]

I think that it would a good idea to stick with the hydrants.

[the1141man]

I think that it would a good idea to stick with the hydrants.

I think I agree...the original post leaves a bit to be desired in terms of readability.
Did the OP propose putting a vacuum on the unit to move water from a drop tank to the unit tank??

OP: I'm guessing that either English isn't your first language, or you're an exploder...maybe "both of the above".


Anyways, if you're going to do a shuttle in a hydranted region, for whatever reason, why not just connect the supply hose from the hydrant direct to the intake? Why bother with a drop tank at the hydrant? Seems like a lot of extra (and pointless) work...

[waterboy1]

I think what you are asking, is it quicker to fill a tanker from a dump tank or hydrant?.. Set your truck up with a 5" direct fill and fill off of the hyd. We connect a 5" to the 2.5 on the hyd. with a stortz connection at the truck. When the truck is full, unhook the stortz and leave it lay.

[MalahatTwo7]

Having fairly recently come from a department where the spelling of hydrant was T-A-N-K-E-R, I think I mostly understand the problem and the question. Maybe...

Problem with the hyrdants: Is the supply flow from the hydrant enough to support pump operations? This may necessitate having a "standing" water supply through the drop tank.

At my old station, they have a 3000 gal tanker, with three one thousand gal drop tanks. The tanker op stages the drops tanks IAW the OIC directions, fills them from the initial onboard water, and then heads off to the nearest water supply (usually a lake or pond). While this is going on, mutual aid from two other depts has been received and they are dispatching an additional engine (at mininmum) and a tanker each. Then the real fun begins..........

Malahat's tanker carries a 500gpm Honda (supposidly) portable pump, with 4 inch draughting on 30 feet of hard suction hose. One of the neighbouring depts is serviced by hydrants so the truck is rigged to be able to hook up with 2-1/2 inch hose. From the few times I've hooked in, the pressure from the hydrant was enough that the pump could be bypassed, so there was no problem with hose collapse due to suction from the pump.

[slackjawedyokel]

In some rural areas we have what we call blow offs which are a 3 " riser that usually flows about 180 GPM -- we will sometimes set a folda tank (and a draft engine} and let it be filling up between tanker trips -- a large tanker pumper also works. But If you have a hot hydrant within a mile or so , it is usually better to drive the extra distance though.

[the1141man]

He's not talking about a "typical" dump n' draft operation...here's the key part to his post:

my idea is that if you equip the truck with 2 drop tanks and you drop one at the hydrent and run a 2 1/2 from the hydrent to the drop tank and let it fill up and i think a vacum tanker could fill by sucking the water out of the drop tank quicker than the hydrent filling it and after ur full just keep filling the drop tank so after you dump and come back its full again.

So basically, he's talking about hydrant fills drop tank. Tender drops another drop tank at or near the scene. Tender fills second drop tank with tank water, then returns to the first drop tank, drafts from it, then returns to the scene and dumps more water.

The only thing is that he's saying to add a drop tank at the hydrant, and my question (I think a very valid one, too) is: why put a drop tank at a hydrant? Just fill the tender's internal tank from the hydrant and shuttle that way... see where it's goin?

[Rescue101]

Piercerocks,Back away from the koolaide.And if you would post your query in a format that we could interpret easier you would get more responses,more detail and likely a proper answer to your question. T.C.

[fire0099881]

If you work in a city where there are hydrents and also you cover a township that has hydrents in a small part of it and your looking into getting a tanker what kind of size tank what type of truck and vacum or regular pump what dont have very many lakes but my idea is that if you equip the truck with 2 drop tanks and you drop one at the hydrent and run a 2 1/2 from the hydrent to the drop tank and let it fill up and i think a vacum tanker could fill by sucking the water out of the drop tank quicker than the hydrent filling it and after ur full just keep filling the drop tank so after you dump and come back its full again.

It depends on manpower, and your mutual aid coming in and hydrant flow's. The size of the truck depends on how much water you carry on board your engine, time it will take for m.a. to arrive, stuff like that, I wouldn't go any less than 2,000-2,500 gallons. As for a vacuum, conventional, or pumper-tanker sit down and talk about it, talk to neighboring depts about them, and see what would work best for you

also think about putting in dry hydrant's into the lakes that you do have if they will support them, the state foresty division has grant's out there to assist you in getting them.

[voyager9]

The only thing is that he's saying to add a drop tank at the hydrant, and my question (I think a very valid one, too) is: why put a drop tank at a hydrant? Just fill the tender's internal tank from the hydrant and shuttle that way... see where it's goin?

Wouldn't this be useful if there is very poor flow from the hydrant? If the tender can fill from the drop tank faster then from the hydrant then this layout would allow the tank to refill while the tender was away.

[slackjawedyokel]

Thats the example I used --- 180 GPM blowoff (ie weak hydrant) takes ten or eleven minutes to fill a 2000 gallon tanker --- set a folda tank and a fill pumper (draft engine) you have a say a 10 minute trip with a tanker -- your foldatank should be close to full -- you have draft already established -- use twin fill lines from your pumper -- fill the tanker in usually less than half the time. This also works with a large pumper tanker instead of a foldatank.
It all depends on how close a good hot hydrant is --- way simpler to drive an extra mile.

[the1141man]

Wouldn't this be useful if there is very poor flow from the hydrant? If the tender can fill from the drop tank faster then from the hydrant then this layout would allow the tank to refill while the tender was away.

Point taken. Then again, like Cletus (the slackjawedyokel) said: drive an extra mile for a better-flowing hydrant.
Dare I say that knowing which hydrants flow well and which don't should be part of good pre-planning, or even just knowing your first-due well?

[MalahatTwo7]

Point taken. Then again, like Cletus (the slackjawedyokel) said: drive an extra mile for a better-flowing hydrant.
Dare I say that knowing which hydrants flow well and which don't should be part of good pre-planning, or even just knowing your first-due well?

Unless of course the entire area is serviced by low-flow..... then knowing which hyrant flows well is rather moot. Your point in general is a good one though 1141, about pre-fire plans etc. Generally, coming from a "low-tech" area and very humble beginnings, I still have high regard for tanker ops. And tankers don't usually have problems with broken hydrant service or people breaking them open to make waterparks in summertime.

[5pts384]

Living in a no hydrant area, and the nearest hydrants flow about 300 gal/min. I can see that a drop tank could be helpfull, some of the vacuum tankers can fill 2-3000 gals in 2-3 min. this is much faster than the hydrant can supply.

[HEYVERN]

Tankers

Piercerocks, what Sebring are you from? As far as what tanker you should buy. You need to find one that fit your specific needs (what all will it be used for), how will it integrate in mutual aid operations (giving and recieving), manpower available and the biggest factor budget. As far as using a vacuum tanker to complement the hydrant system, a traditional pumper tanker will suffice. We have four or five vacuum tankers in our area but the areas they operate out of have no hydrants at all. Hope this helps.