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??Engine's as RIT?? ??RIGHT or WRONG??

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  • #31
    You'll also see..
    R.I.C. = Rapid Intervention Crew.
    F.A.S.T. = Firefighter Assist and Search Team.
    There may be a few others, but they all have to do with FF's saving our own.

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    • #32
      Josh - I understand your "Engine vs. Truck" point, but how efficient is a Truck Co. as a R.I.T. when they must stretch & operate a hoseline because that is the best way to immediately protect / save a ff's life? What's the experience level on some Engines vs. Trucks? Who would you rather have coming for you - A 10-15 year Engine FF or a 2 year Truck FF?
      You sure make a lot of assumptions on how RIT companies work, especiallly here in my town. Better yet, your comment on a 2 year truckie. The early signs of a true wacker.
      We have 2 dedicated RIT companies trained in each district, minimum, with the majority being trucks, but a couple of engines also. All are equiped with the same emergancy air, handtools, and etc to do the job. Also for backup, the Squads are also trained with the tools. Extra RIT air is also kept on the chiefs buggy. The RIT company is dispatched to the scene as such.
      As far as pulling a line, it's obvious you have not been trained in any advanced search and rescue techniques. When you get to this level, come back and we'll talk.
      In the event a RIT is activated, all fire companies performing the tasks of fire containment and extinguishment continue to do such. The RIT company will deploy and try to at-least find the firefighter if not make a grab. Many of the training scenarios we have done, especially simulating high pile storage, (Tarver/Pheonix) the initial RIT cannot make a rescue do to air and search time constraints. The RIT company does not pull a line, but we do have search ropes. If a firefighter is trapped and they don't have a line, what makes you think that you dragging one in is going to help? If you lucky enough to get one in through the mess. An immediate 2nd is called and a 2nd RIT is established at the moment a RIT is activated. even if's not a dedicated company, they will have the training. With a squad at every fire, they will also have the proper tools.
      Our RIT program is based on the aggresive training we recieved from Chicago Fire and the AWARE program from Oregon. We are also fortunate to have the Denver drill and Pittsburg drill set up in our basement. With lots of extra tretchery to try.
      So to answer the initial question, as long as a company has the training and equipment, it don't matter whether it's a truck or engine.
      My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
      "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
      George Mason
      Co-author of the Second Amendment
      during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
      Elevator Rescue Information

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      • #33
        So to answer the initial question, as long as a company has the training and equipment, it doesn’t matter whether it's a truck or engine.

        I think that this statement sums it up the best. It is clear that not every department functions the same way, meaning that the way my department utilizes truck companies could be different from many other places.
        For instance; the department that my brother works for, their engines carry saws, and two of the them carry auto extrication tools. In my department, you will never find a saw or any other kind of power tool on an engine, much less the Hurst.

        If your engines carry the proper tools to function in a RIT capacity, and all the members of that company have experience in the same, I don’t see a problem with an engine serving as RIT.
        RIT needs power tools, saws, extra air, etc… RIT also requires a different mindset from the members who are to be in that role, because it is kind of important. I will say that a company working as RIT has to have THEIR own tools; they don’t need a line off their rig, but they absolutely have to have THEIR own tools.

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        • #34
          Rum,Treachery in training is GOOD.Unforeseen curves can sharpen ones perspective.I kinda chuckled at one of the earlier questions:Where's the Chief's buggy?Speaking only for us:Generally not very far from the action.Since my "ride"is one of the aforementioned units with all my stuff in it,it's going to be right up where I can get at it unless we're under firestorm/conflagration conditions.We don't have the luxury of a dedicated team,but within our response area are a number of trained highly motivated personnel who can fill any needed position including RIT.The way we operate locally is that the first due MA town will assume the RIT function.This also puts the establishment of the function at just about the right time,as they arrive at just about the time the crews are going thru the door(automatic aid).And I'm not particularly fussy whether it's an Engine crew or a Truck crew that's coming to get me as long as they know how to get me out and bring a "can"of fresh air.Just my twisted prspective from the North woods. T.C.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by len1582 View Post
            You'll also see..
            R.I.C. = Rapid Intervention Crew.
            F.A.S.T. = Firefighter Assist and Search Team.
            There may be a few others, but they all have to do with FF's saving our own.
            I have a friend who's assistant chief came up with the name "Firefighter Assistance and Rescue Team" for the company assigned as the rapid intervention crew.

            At working fires, they call for the FART!
            ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
            Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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            • #36
              Yep,here we go.Hasn't even got his white hat yet and already thinking about fuel,Hehe T.C.

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              • #37
                You mean to say if Im an engine guy Im too stupid to figure out how to use a pike pole?? Or if Im a truckie I dont have the IQ to turn on a nozzle???

                Ive been a member of 3 volly depts and 2 diff career depts, always verstial enough to perform any basic function of the job.

                On both career depts Ive worked for EVERYONE is trained in RIT. And Ill go further to say EVERYONE should be, no matter what assignment or dept.

                On my previous dept. we barely had enough people to catch a plug, so it was pretty hard to assign one specific company to RIT.


                Here at StLFD...an engine is assigned as the RIT on a 1st Alarm. If it goes to a multiple alarm and/or RIT is activated then a squad backs up the initial RIT. I feel confident w/any company we've got to do RIT. It's as auotmatic as putting your boots on here. If you're the RIT....once on the scene you get the RIT bag and tools and stage where IC needs you.

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                • #38
                  I don't think the "Firefighter Assistance and Rescue Team" is bringing a fresh air supply with them !!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JoshWebb View Post
                    Wow, Brother. a 2 yr truck man, who does he know? Again yes train us all, but just like a well oiled NAVY SEAL TEAM, where they all are cross trained but we also have some with extra training and more on the job experiance.
                    Im a die hard pipeman but any half trained fireman can figure out how to point a nozzle, so a truck guy operating a pipe in an emergency, as funny as he may look, im sure he could putt some of the impingement out. Then the other Truck guys can be used to search and bring us home. This can be done with the everyday skill's of tools he has over the eng guy.
                    We lost a guy in 1994 (Nutter) fell tru a roof of a storage unit (prior to any RIT)with out explaining the special building constuction we had trouble accessing where h was traped.
                    Could a truck with special training have made a diff. YES! Could an Eng? YES! But who would be faster and better suited??
                    Josh, you make it sound like the only thing your engine crew is good at is spaying water. As we all know being a ff comes with all kinds of training,and being able to handle all types of different emergency situations. This is'nt the proper way to say this but I feel any one who is capable of making entry into a IDLH enviroment should have training in RIT. Not only should they be trained,but able to function as a team and get things done. RIT teams I feel are an important role on any fire ground operation. After all,these are fellow firefighters we are looking out for.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by len1582 View Post
                      You'll also see..
                      R.I.C. = Rapid Intervention Crew.
                      F.A.S.T. = Firefighter Assist and Search Team.
                      There may be a few others, but they all have to do with FF's saving our own.

                      We call it RIG (Rapid Intervention Group).

                      Here, all rigs carry RIG equipment (bags, tools, ropes, large capacity SCBA bottle). All FFs get the same level of RIG training, regardless the type of rig you are assigned to. In most cases, the 3rd due engine is assigned RIG, but it can also be given to a truck company or squad (heavy rescue) company depending on the situation.

                      All our FFs are cross-trained, and are fully-functional on each type of apparatus. So to answer the original question, no, a truckie here wouldnt be a better choice for RIG just because he's on the truck that particular day. Our truckies are quite handy with a knob, just as our engine crews are good on a roof.
                      Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

                      IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

                      "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
                      RUSH-Tom Sawyer

                      Success is when skill meets opportunity
                      Failure is when fantasy meets reality

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                      • #41
                        There is a good article in the August 2005 "FIRE ENGINEERING" issue on RIT. The title is "The Engine Company as the Rapid Intervention Team" by Chuck DeLuca. It is a very informative article on using engine companies as RIT.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          "ok Ok"

                          Guy's, Like i said EVERYONE SHOULD BE TRAINED ON R.I.T., FAST, RIG, FART whatever. Im not disagreeing with that.
                          Im slowly seein that in most places a Truck could be on the nozzle and an eng could be on a Roof. Doesnt happen here, we have a job pre-planed depending on where your assigned Truck or Engine.
                          This gives the Truck guys a chance to get really good at what they do, and an engine guy a chance to perfect his game. when ya get moved over to a diff company in a diff part of town, its like startin over sometimes, diff structures, hazards and what-not.
                          Most places other than larger cities do not have this chance so i see the need to use who and what ever company you can.
                          To the guy who saves his brothers with a plaster hook, Ask you department for some extra RIT training. Thanks guy's
                          345

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                          • #43
                            In the case of my department, our G.O. states that the RIC will be assigned to the rescue squad or closest special service (truck or tower). With regard to staffing, the crews are not unit specific. We are dispatched according to what is due from our respective companies. So, the truckie or squad man you may get as part of your RIC, might as well have been the Lineman on the earlier fire.

                            In my personal experience, the last two fireground maydays resulted with the downed firefighter being removed by those members operating closest to him at the time of the mayday. As far as I can state with that experience, unless the trapped firefighter is to be accessed by breaching walls, cutting floors or performing a rope rescue, he will most likely be found and assessed by those closest to him, and subsequently removed by the same people of by the RIC, once they have access to the downed firefighter. This is where the cross training is of more value than the type of apparatus you responded on.

                            "but any half trained fireman can figure out how to point a nozzle.."
                            Careful. You might be suprised at how many people can't do this correctly, or know how but not "why".
                            Fire Nuggets has some interesting engine company/rapid intervention articles as well.

                            William Carey
                            "If you put the fire out right in the first place, you won't have to jump out the window."
                            Andy Fredericks,
                            FDNY E.48, SQ.18
                            Alexandria, VA F.D.

                            Rest in Peace

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by JoshWebb View Post
                              Our Batt carry the spare air pack, so we have to go find where he parked??
                              This hasn't been a problem for me. Most of the chiefs get somewhere close but out of the way.
                              Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by JoshWebb View Post
                                An engine, (even as tough as we are) just isn't as trained or experienced as our lazier and dumber Truck Guys across the floor.
                                Every firefighter should be trained in self-rescue and the rescue of others.
                                If you don't have the experience in this perhaps you should train on it before somebody gets hurt.
                                J
                                It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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