Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

pre-emptive devices

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • pre-emptive devices

    The West Des Moines Police Department issued new details Monday about a fatal collision between a vehicle and fire truck.

    The collision that happened last month killed 16-year-old Erika Schwager.

    The Urbandale Police Department and the West Des Moines Police Department investigated the crash.

    The information was given to the Polk County Attorney's Office.

    Investigators found that Schwager was driving westbound on Westown Parkway at about 30 to 35 mph and the West Des Moines fire truck was headed northbound on Valley West Drive at no more than 35 mph, a news release said.

    The fire truck's lights and sirens were activated and all vehicles nearby had stopped or slowed down, except Schwager's, the release said.

    The investigation showed that Schwager had a green light and failed to yield to the fire truck even though the emergency vehicle had a red light.

    "Erika did not yield to the emergency vehicle. The fire truck had its red lights and sirens activated," said Lt. Jeff Miller of the West Des Moines Police Department.

    The fire truck also had a red light. A safety measure inside that fire truck called a pre-emptive device was supposed to change it to green, but it didn't, NewsChannel 8 reported.

    "The fire truck had activated their pre-emptive device prior to the accident at 35th and Westown Parkway ... It had pre-empted some other lights leading up to it and for reasons unknown it didn't pre-empt that particular light," Miller said.

    "Your pre-emptive button is right here we leave it on all the time and then it goes off automatically when you put it into park," said Brian O'Keefe of the Des Moines Fire Department. "So anytime you turn the emergency lights on the pre-empt device transmits a signal."

    That signal is sent to a box on top of the truck, to another on a utility post and then the traffic light changes to green before the fire truck enters the intersection.

    "So it just helps move the vehicles out of the way in an orderly fashion so we can proceed through the intersection and we're not obstructed or slowed down by vehicles," O'Keefe said.

    Miller said the city plans to look into the pre-emptive device and the collision.

    "The Schwager family wishes once again to express our appreciation for the support and encouragement we have received from so many people during this difficult time. The findings of the report does nothing to change our desire to pray for the well-being of all involved and to move on with our grieving process," the Schwager family said in a statement.

    The Polk County attorney now has the police report, but no charges are expected to be filed






    Gotta love the new technology that we have! Now from what i am reading If the light was still red, why didn't they stop for it, instead of just going right through the red-light?

  • #2
    My guess is that they were so used to the pre-emptive device working, they didn't anticipate the red light.

    Comment


    • #3
      Psst...we're over here...

      http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...t=85757&page=1
      Jack of all trades, master of none.

      Live Green, Go Yellow!

      Join the forums at www.ambulass.com!

      Comment


      • #4
        oh ok, sorry didn't see it on here

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by fire0099881
          Gotta love the new technology that we have! Now from what i am reading If the light was still red, why didn't they stop for it, instead of just going right through the red-light?
          Probably because they wanted to get in an accident and kill a young girl. Now answer me this - Why do jagoffs always jump on their fellow firemen before all the facts are in? Why do they give the benefit of the doubt to everyone involved EXCEPT their fellow firemen? Why, when their fellow firemen could use some support, do they jump all over them and go out of their way to invent ways that their fellow firemen could be at fault? Answer those questions, and then tell me how you want to be supported by us when something bad happens to you or your department.
          I am a complacent liability to the fire service

          Comment


          • #6
            Gotta love the new technology that we have! Now from what i am reading If the light was still red, why didn't they stop for it, instead of just going right through the red-light?
            What is wrong with that statement?
            RSMo 304.022
            2. The driver of an emergency vehicle may:
            (a) Park or stand irrespective of the provisions of sections 304.014 to 304.025;

            (b) Proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;

            (c) Exceed the prima facie speed limit so long as the driver does not endanger life or property;

            (d) Disregard regulations governing direction of movement or turning in specified directions.
            I would venture to say had this happened here, more than our fellow firemen would be questioning the incident, probably a bunch of attorneys, if not a prosecutor. Aside from that, is that now how we learn? What's the purpose of NIOSH's firefighter fatality reports if not to identify what went wrong and give recommendations on how to prevent it from happening again.

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree with ChicagoFF, there needs to be more facts to the story. It seems like there's been alot of fire apparatus incidents this year.BE SAFE!

              Comment


              • #8
                Police: Teen had green light, but should have yielded
                A device West Des Moines firefighters use to change traffic signals didn't work, an inquiry concludes.

                By JARED STRONG
                REGISTER STAFF WRITER


                December 5, 2006
                Add comment



                A safety mechanism designed to change traffic signals for emergency vehicles failed to activate at an intersection where a West Des Moines firetruck collided with a teenage driver who later died, an investigation has revealed.

                The investigation by the Urbandale Police Department into the Nov. 20 crash determined that 16-year-old Erika Schwager of West Des Moines failed to yield to the truck, which was responding to an alarm at Valley West Mall.

                The truck's emergency lights and sirens were active at the time of the crash.

                "She needed to yield to the emergency vehicle," said West Des Moines Police Lt. Jeff Miller, who released the results of the investigation Monday. "Other vehicles in the intersection going the same direction as her all yielded to the fire engine."

                The Urbandale department investigated the crash to avoid possible conflicts of interest. Its findings indicate that Schwager had a green light despite the firefighters' use of the device that should have turned her signal red.

                "It had pre-empted previous lights prior to that intersection, but for some reason it did not pre-empt there," Miller said. "In an accident of this magnitude, there are many causation factors. I wouldn't say that's the reason why this crash occurred and Erika died."

                Schwager's family issued a statement following the release of the report.

                "The Schwager family wishes once again to express our appreciation for the support and encouragement we have received from so many people during this difficult time. The findings of the report does nothing to change our desire to pray for the well-being of all involved and to move on with our grieving process," the statement said.

                About a dozen intersections in West Des Moines have the pre-emption system, an extra layer of safety that firefighters don't necessarily rely on, West Des Moines Fire Chief Don Cox said.

                "It is only a tool, and we don't have total reliance on anything that's mechanical," he said of the system, which has been installed gradually during the last few years. "Regardless if we have pre-emption, our policies say that in intersections we are to slow down enough to the point we could stop."

                Investigators determined the firetruck was traveling, at most, 35 mph, which is the speed limit at that intersection.

                Police said Schwager was returning home from shopping at the mall. Miller said that Schwager's cell phone was not in her purse or another container but that it was not known whether she was talking on the phone at the time of the crash.

                A witness to the crash said Schwager, who was travelling west, apparently tried to beat the northbound firetruck through the intersection of Westown Parkway and Valley West Drive, which is at the southwest corner of the mall's parking lot.

                The firetruck collided with Schwager's car, then crossed the median and hit another vehicle, which struck a third vehicle. No one else was injured. Schwager was wearing a seat belt.

                Miller said the traffic light at Schwager's intersection approach was a "relatively new green," but he said investigators couldn't determine exactly how long she had had a green light.

                Cox, the fire chief, said the firetruck was called off moments before the crash when other emergency responders determined it was answering a false alarm, triggered in a fitting room at the mall. The false alarm wasn't a prank, he said.

                Cox said members of his department have been frustrated by media reports since the crash that suggested the firefighters were somehow at fault.

                "It's been a rough couple of weeks," he said. "If we did anything wrong, I'll be the first to stand up as fire chief and say we did."




                Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                Probably because they wanted to get in an accident and kill a young girl. Now answer me this - Why do jagoffs always jump on their fellow firemen before all the facts are in? Why do they give the benefit of the doubt to everyone involved EXCEPT their fellow firemen? Why, when their fellow firemen could use some support, do they jump all over them and go out of their way to invent ways that their fellow firemen could be at fault? Answer those questions, and then tell me how you want to be supported by us when something bad happens to you or your department.
                I wasn't trying to jump all over them, I was just stating, if the light was still red why didn't they stop for it, as we all know no one pay's too much attention to emergency vehicles. and with all the new cars being so "sound proof" and young kids with there music blaring don't even know they are coming. I realize that it's not alway's the dept. that is at fault. I wasn't giving benefit of the doubt to everyone involved except the fireman, I was just stating what it said in the article, that they had the red-light.


                Catch22 I think it also say's some place that you have to drive with due-regard for the safety all persons and property upon the highway.

                but we all have to realize that we can't always rely on something mechanical to work right every time, not saying that maybe they thought they would have the green light by the time they got there or not.

                and no I ain't trying to bash these fellow firefighter's, it's just my own opinion

                like it stated in the article here, that it is not known whether she was talking on a cell-phone at the time of the crash. we will never know why she did not yield to the truck.

                So bash me if you like, everyone will alway's have their own opinions on things

                Comment


                • #9
                  "It is only a tool, and we don't have total reliance on anything that's mechanical," he said of the system, which has been installed gradually during the last few years. "Regardless if we have pre-emption, our policies say that in intersections we are to slow down enough to the point we could stop."

                  Investigators determined the firetruck was traveling, at most, 35 mph, which is the speed limit at that intersection.
                  This is what sticks out to me in that article. I'm not going to say that these guys are totally at fault, but could they have done anything to prevent this accident from occurring? If they were going 35 through an intersection, I would dare say they could have, as well as a potential policy violation. I know I can't stop our trucks on a dime at 35 mph.

                  I also noticed wording that insinuated that they're looking at the fact she could have been using a cell phone. With the little amount of sound that comes through vehicles nowadays, couple with a cell phone and probably a stereo going, I can very well see how she might not have heard the siren. I still think they need to ban cell phone usage while driving, and this really drives home that point.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Catch22
                    I also noticed wording that insinuated that they're looking at the fact she could have been using a cell phone. With the little amount of sound that comes through vehicles nowadays, couple with a cell phone and probably a stereo going, I can very well see how she might not have heard the siren. I still think they need to ban cell phone usage while driving, and this really drives home that point.
                    I can not agree with you more on that, and yes I do use mine while driving, but try to limit it, I have a hard enough time trying to pay attention to all the "idiot's" on the road as it is! and also it says that they are unaware if she was talking on the phone at the time of the crash, shouldn't they be able to just look in the phones recent calls and see if she called anyone or received a call around that time?

                    I don't know if you looked at the DesMoinesRegister.com yet but there is also a few more articles on there about it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fire0099881
                      Gotta love the new technology that we have! Now from what i am reading If the light was still red, why didn't they stop for it, instead of just going right through the red-light?
                      You can't stop because the light changes when you are within 20 feet of the intersection. Hard when every other light turns green, so you are travelling at posted speed (35 mph) with a 15-20 ton truck- kind of the mental equivalent to the light turning red 20 feet out- you too would go through.

                      Here's what I wrote on the other thread-
                      New technology does not remove the need to use time tested technique and skills. One community I lived in had OptiCom and I observed their apparatus blow through at 30mph+. I always wondered how long it would be before one failed and a tragic crash would occur.

                      I'm not finding fault with the driver or officer. I do feel that we still stress hand searches despite having TICs. Same should be true here- an added safety factor should not lead to established safe procedures.

                      Comment

                      300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                      Collapse

                      Upper 300x250

                      Collapse

                      Taboola

                      Collapse

                      Leader

                      Collapse
                      Working...
                      X