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  • Bostonjake1240
    replied
    Boston use's them for training, we climb 6 stories up and 6 down with it. When you get to the top you have to lock in with a ladder belt and lean back, then one of the instructors bang the ladder and you crap yourself!! The one they showed in the video is nothing like the ones we use. ours have one hook with one center beam with rungs coming off both sides for hand and foot placement.

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  • fireman4949
    replied
    Originally posted by PureAdrenalin
    And what if the crews are too lazy to want to take the training offered? It can go both ways. This is more or less a vollie issue, but still..yes..very sad. You can always see in the first five minutes of a good job who drills properly and who does not.
    If the crews are too lazy, then it is not only a disciplinary problem, but an authoritative one on the part of the officers as well.

    I can speak only from a career perspective, having never been on a volunteer dept., but I really don't see that there should be too much of a difference...




    Kevin

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  • PureAdrenalin
    replied
    Originally posted by fireman4949
    I think not so much a lack of discipline, as such, as it is laziness and a lack of motivation of the officers to want to properly train their crews.

    Either way, it's sad.




    Kevin
    And what if the crews are too lazy to want to take the training offered? It can go both ways. This is more or less a vollie issue, but still..yes..very sad. You can always see in the first five minutes of a good job who drills properly and who does not.

    Leave a comment:


  • ROOKIELZ
    replied
    I saw one in a training video and had to answer questions about it but that's it.
    I've never actually seen one up close and I don't know of any departments that actually have one.

    Leave a comment:


  • fireman4949
    replied
    Originally posted by PureAdrenalin
    Cringe as you must, the honest truth among many vollie and even career departments is as FFFred has written. Many departments are just not proficient in rarely used skills or equipment. Lack of discipline is to blame, IMO.
    I think not so much a lack of discipline, as such, as it is laziness and a lack of motivation of the officers to want to properly train their crews.

    Either way, it's sad.




    Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • PureAdrenalin
    replied
    Originally posted by 2andfrom
    I read it--but I cannot believe it--the bloody thing is "on the run" but no one knows how to use it? If it costs mega bucks cos someone ate some dogfood(and he is still alive)how many trillions in damages will it cost when some untrained person uses this bit of kit and dies?

    FFFred--I find it FFFRightening!--I almost cringe to ask--is it a Career or Vollie Brigade?
    Cringe as you must, the honest truth among many vollie and even career departments is as FFFred has written. Many departments are just not proficient in rarely used skills or equipment. Lack of discipline is to blame, IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • 2andfrom
    replied
    Fascinating insight

    I read it--but I cannot believe it--the bloody thing is "on the run" but no one knows how to use it? If it costs mega bucks cos someone ate some dogfood(and he is still alive)how many trillions in damages will it cost when some untrained person uses this bit of kit and dies?

    FFFred--I find it FFFRightening!--I almost cringe to ask--is it a Career or Vollie Brigade?

    Leave a comment:


  • Catch22
    replied
    Originally posted by FFFRED
    Thats interesting that your department didn't move that ladder to the new appratus. Is it not a ladder according to your departments procedures that can be used? Why didn't it make the move to the new Truck when it was puchased?

    And I've never heard of not being trained on a peice of equipment because you aren't assigned to that appratus. Or on appratus was nearing the end of its usefulness. I'm assigned to an Engine but I am trained in the use of forcible entry tools, the torch and the ladders...etc. Just the same truckies know how to properly strech and estimate for Engine ops...they know foam...etc. And when god willing we get a new appratus...all the old gear comes with us.

    How do your officers or your firemen maintain profiecncy in their trade and skills when you never touch a ladder or a hose sleeve? A loss of water is an urgent situation that requires swift and practiced evolutions to rectify in a safe and timely manner. Yet you've never used it? How often do your members drill? It is no wonder so many departments needed EMS to justify their jobs...sounds like some don't even drill during the tour when time allows.

    Does your dept. buy all new equipment and hand tools everytime you purchase a new rig?

    I am honestly a little puzzled by this. I honestly hope you say a little prayer everytime you report for duty.

    Sounds like you are leaving alot to chance and luck...I hope my impression is wrong.

    FTM-PTB
    Don't get me wrong, we're not as bad as my last remark made it seem (poor effort at humor I guess). The truck's actually not out of service yet, we just got a sales tax passed that's going to replace it and do some other things (new stations, manpower, training center, etc.). I'm willing to bet the ladders go with the truck when we get rid of it.

    We are trained on all the trucks (I actually get shifted from the rescue, engine, and quints quite often, rarely is the platform actually in service as a frontline apparatus). We do often pull out equipment and train on it and various tactics. However, in the case of the pompier ladders, it's not the preferred method. There's only two, maybe three buildings that our sticks won't reach (predominately residential and industrial, not too many buildings over 3-4 stories). If I remember right, they've talked about removing them citing safety concerns (don't quote me on that). Like I say, it's not an excuse, but just the way it is for the moment.

    I won't say that our training program is what it should be, but we're working on it. We've got a new chief and new mindset on the department, so things are getting better (no more "we've always done it that way" attitude). We're also getting ready to hire a training captain to help our over-worked training/special operations chief. This is coupled with a "training committee" that's helping out with training. Just a growing process.

    Leave a comment:


  • FFFRED
    replied
    Originally posted by Catch22
    Actually, I would agree with you. I'm not assigned to that truck (it's actually a reserve that's getting ready to be replaced), not that that's an excuse. When I first got hired on, we looked at it and talked about how it's used and discussed why it's even on the truck as no one could remember the last time it was pulled off.

    Kind of like a hose sleeve I guess, we all know it's there and what it's for, just never had the need to use it.
    Thats interesting that your department didn't move that ladder to the new appratus. Is it not a ladder according to your departments procedures that can be used? Why didn't it make the move to the new Truck when it was puchased?

    And I've never heard of not being trained on a peice of equipment because you aren't assigned to that appratus. Or on appratus was nearing the end of its usefulness. I'm assigned to an Engine but I am trained in the use of forcible entry tools, the torch and the ladders...etc. Just the same truckies know how to properly strech and estimate for Engine ops...they know foam...etc. And when god willing we get a new appratus...all the old gear comes with us.

    How do your officers or your firemen maintain profiecncy in their trade and skills when you never touch a ladder or a hose sleeve? A loss of water is an urgent situation that requires swift and practiced evolutions to rectify in a safe and timely manner. Yet you've never used it? How often do your members drill? It is no wonder so many departments needed EMS to justify their jobs...sounds like some don't even drill during the tour when time allows.

    Does your dept. buy all new equipment and hand tools everytime you purchase a new rig?

    I am honestly a little puzzled by this. I honestly hope you say a little prayer everytime you report for duty.

    Sounds like you are leaving alot to chance and luck...I hope my impression is wrong.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 12-01-2006, 12:33 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Catch22
    replied
    Originally posted by FFFRED
    Don't you think it is a bit odd and perhaps dangerous that a peice of equipment such as a scaling ladder is on your appratus but you've never drilled on its use?

    FTM-PTB
    Actually, I would agree with you. I'm not assigned to that truck (it's actually a reserve that's getting ready to be replaced), not that that's an excuse. When I first got hired on, we looked at it and talked about how it's used and discussed why it's even on the truck as no one could remember the last time it was pulled off.

    Kind of like a hose sleeve I guess, we all know it's there and what it's for, just never had the need to use it.

    Leave a comment:


  • FFFRED
    replied
    Originally posted by Catch22
    Niether of the above.

    Don't you think it is a bit odd and perhaps dangerous that a peice of equipment such as a scaling ladder is on your appratus but you've never drilled on its use?

    FTM-PTB

    Leave a comment:


  • 2andfrom
    replied
    Hook Ladders

    Originally posted by bobsnyder
    I saw a pompier ladder in person once, and that's the closest I ever want to get to using one. Although I do like the pot & pan rack idea...
    Trained with them and used them in anger-taken off the run by the poofter Health and Safety crew in or around the early 80's(apparently the new breed of Firepersons could not lift them) They were the best confidence booster devised by the Fire Brigade--"Two man hook ladders to the 10th floor -GO!" This order barked out by a Drill Instructor made sure the flakes and fakes were eliminated.

    There was a saying in the LFB "What apart from a Hook Ladder has a 6 inch bill and 8 jagged teeth?"


    Answer"Yer Mother in Law"

    Leave a comment:


  • Catch22
    replied
    Originally posted by FFFRED
    You've never used one at a job or you've never drilled with one?

    FTM-PTB
    Niether of the above.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steeda83
    replied
    i should be gettin the opportunity to climb one in the coming months maybe ill get some cool pics or a video of it

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  • FFFRED
    replied
    Originally posted by Catch22
    I've never used one, but my FT department still has them on our '85 102' AerialCat.
    You've never used one at a job or you've never drilled with one?

    FTM-PTB

    Leave a comment:

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