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  • #16
    Fascinating insight

    I read it--but I cannot believe it--the bloody thing is "on the run" but no one knows how to use it? If it costs mega bucks cos someone ate some dogfood(and he is still alive)how many trillions in damages will it cost when some untrained person uses this bit of kit and dies?

    FFFred--I find it FFFRightening!--I almost cringe to ask--is it a Career or Vollie Brigade?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by 2andfrom
      I read it--but I cannot believe it--the bloody thing is "on the run" but no one knows how to use it? If it costs mega bucks cos someone ate some dogfood(and he is still alive)how many trillions in damages will it cost when some untrained person uses this bit of kit and dies?

      FFFred--I find it FFFRightening!--I almost cringe to ask--is it a Career or Vollie Brigade?
      Cringe as you must, the honest truth among many vollie and even career departments is as FFFred has written. Many departments are just not proficient in rarely used skills or equipment. Lack of discipline is to blame, IMO.
      'Adversus incendia excubias nocturnas vigilesque commentus est"

      www.vententersearch.com

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      • #18
        Originally posted by PureAdrenalin
        Cringe as you must, the honest truth among many vollie and even career departments is as FFFred has written. Many departments are just not proficient in rarely used skills or equipment. Lack of discipline is to blame, IMO.
        I think not so much a lack of discipline, as such, as it is laziness and a lack of motivation of the officers to want to properly train their crews.

        Either way, it's sad.




        Kevin
        Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
        IAFF Local 2339
        K of C 4th Degree
        "LEATHER FOREVER"
        Member I.A.C.O.J.
        http://www.tfdfire.com/
        "Fir na tine"

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        • #19
          I saw one in a training video and had to answer questions about it but that's it.
          I've never actually seen one up close and I don't know of any departments that actually have one.
          IACOJ
          If you are willing to teach;
          I am willing to learn.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by fireman4949
            I think not so much a lack of discipline, as such, as it is laziness and a lack of motivation of the officers to want to properly train their crews.

            Either way, it's sad.




            Kevin
            And what if the crews are too lazy to want to take the training offered? It can go both ways. This is more or less a vollie issue, but still..yes..very sad. You can always see in the first five minutes of a good job who drills properly and who does not.
            'Adversus incendia excubias nocturnas vigilesque commentus est"

            www.vententersearch.com

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            • #21
              Originally posted by PureAdrenalin
              And what if the crews are too lazy to want to take the training offered? It can go both ways. This is more or less a vollie issue, but still..yes..very sad. You can always see in the first five minutes of a good job who drills properly and who does not.
              If the crews are too lazy, then it is not only a disciplinary problem, but an authoritative one on the part of the officers as well.

              I can speak only from a career perspective, having never been on a volunteer dept., but I really don't see that there should be too much of a difference...




              Kevin
              Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
              IAFF Local 2339
              K of C 4th Degree
              "LEATHER FOREVER"
              Member I.A.C.O.J.
              http://www.tfdfire.com/
              "Fir na tine"

              Comment


              • #22
                Boston use's them for training, we climb 6 stories up and 6 down with it. When you get to the top you have to lock in with a ladder belt and lean back, then one of the instructors bang the ladder and you crap yourself!! The one they showed in the video is nothing like the ones we use. ours have one hook with one center beam with rungs coming off both sides for hand and foot placement.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bostonjake1240
                  Boston use's them for training, we climb 6 stories up and 6 down with it. When you get to the top you have to lock in with a ladder belt and lean back, then one of the instructors bang the ladder and you crap yourself!!
                  No doubt!

                  Originally posted by Bostonjake1240
                  The one they showed in the video is nothing like the ones we use. ours have one hook with one center beam with rungs coming off both sides for hand and foot placement.
                  Those are the kind I'm familiar with also, although I've seen them, I've never climbed one. We don't have any Pompiers in service in my department.




                  Kevin
                  Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
                  IAFF Local 2339
                  K of C 4th Degree
                  "LEATHER FOREVER"
                  Member I.A.C.O.J.
                  http://www.tfdfire.com/
                  "Fir na tine"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bostonjake1240
                    Boston use's them for training, we climb 6 stories up and 6 down with it. When you get to the top you have to lock in with a ladder belt and lean back, then one of the instructors bang the ladder and you crap yourself!! The one they showed in the video is nothing like the ones we use. ours have one hook with one center beam with rungs coming off both sides for hand and foot placement.

                    Those are the only kind I have ever seen, but that's the only video I could find.
                    ------------------------------------
                    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
                    ------------------------------------

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                    • #25
                      same here until i saw that video the only pompier ladder i knew of was the single beam with the thin rungs off the sides

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                      • #26
                        Buttock Clenchers Club

                        Originally posted by Steeda83
                        same here until i saw that video the only pompier ladder i knew of was the single beam with the thin rungs off the sides
                        "Our" ones were as in the video--but with one exception--NO SAFETY HARNESS WORN!--this was in the days when buttock clenching became a art form.
                        You grabbed(from memory) the third round in your left hand and the sixth round in your right-ladder of course is on the deck-lift the ensemble in one swift arc into the first floor(thats why they got rid of them- the new firepersons could not do it) Single man hook ladder drill as follows
                        Climb-sit in the window-leg lock-grab ladder punch it up into the next floor-same again and again until desired floor is reached.Two man drill more complicated
                        Rather than go into it now-if anyone wants to know the details-Fire Away.
                        Last edited by 2andfrom; 12-04-2006, 10:04 PM. Reason: Addition

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                        • #27
                          Anybody think this might be something good to keep around? I don't know for sure, it's just that I like options.
                          I am a highly trained professional and can find my :: expletive deleted:: with either hand in various light conditions.

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                          • #28
                            Ok, only seen pictures of them, but I'm curious as to the plan of operation when one would be used. Is the idea that 1 firefighter will use this to go up x number of floors and then lower the victim out by rope or something? I can't imagine the thought was that a "general public" person would be expected to climb down this. Not having used them, I'm just seeing so many possible reasons against using it that I'm curious to why it was used. I mean, 1 FF can use this 1 ladder to go up a "theoretically" unlimited number of floors. Now what, he's now up there alone with his 1 ladder? I, admittedly uneducated in their use, just see a very limited usefullness to it.

                            Someone, please educate me on this.
                            "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bones42
                              Ok, only seen pictures of them, but I'm curious as to the plan of operation when one would be used. Is the idea that 1 firefighter will use this to go up x number of floors and then lower the victim out by rope or something? I can't imagine the thought was that a "general public" person would be expected to climb down this. Not having used them, I'm just seeing so many possible reasons against using it that I'm curious to why it was used. I mean, 1 FF can use this 1 ladder to go up a "theoretically" unlimited number of floors. Now what, he's now up there alone with his 1 ladder? I, admittedly uneducated in their use, just see a very limited usefullness to it.

                              Someone, please educate me on this.
                              Ok Bones,
                              There are various methods for using hook ladders.

                              1. the one man way, not often used, you would have to clear all glass from the window frame, or chance getting a lacerated butt.

                              2 The two man method, you wore a leather belt with a hook that you hooked into a steel ring at the head of the ladder, also on the belt was a bobbin line, when you climbed the first ladder, you would hook on, take the second ladder and raise it to the next level and place the hook into the window, then climb to the top and hook on, your partner would be climbing at the same time and would straddle the widow sill (having cleared the glass) and raise the ladder he had just climbed to you, you proceed in this manner till you got to the required level, once there you would drop the bobbin line to the ground, and either the booster reel or a general purpose rope would be attched and you would pull that up, for rescue purpose, the first man up also carried a lowering line in a leather harness.

                              3. the staircase method where several ladders were placed up the outside of the building till the desired level was reached.

                              I have been on two fires where hook ladders were used in anger, on one of these, one of the guys carried a small child down the ladder, and the kids mom climbed down on her own without being told what to do, I guess when flames are licking round you butt, you overcome your fears.

                              Hook ladders were also used to good effect on several hotel fires in Londons west end.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by fireman4949
                                If the crews are too lazy, then it is not only a disciplinary problem, but an authoritative one on the part of the officers as well.

                                I can speak only from a career perspective, having never been on a volunteer dept., but I really don't see that there should be too much of a difference...




                                Kevin
                                Hmm, you should see my old department then. Both the crews and "authority" had no desire to train, ever...and it showed. football, beer, and social events were always more important.
                                'Adversus incendia excubias nocturnas vigilesque commentus est"

                                www.vententersearch.com

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