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  • #46
    Two licensed pilots, one of which is an instructor, flying one of the most advanced small aircraft ever created, out scud-running around the biggest city in the country in poor weather conditions and neither thought there was a problem with this? And it ended just like almost every other "inadvertant continued VFR flight into IFR conditions" incident has... with a bunch of dead people and small burning pieces of aircraft all over the place. 127 seconds, that is all it takes. I'm sorry, I can find very little sympathy for either of the pilots in that airplance. They were both extremely stupid and acting wrecklessly negligent to for their own safety and the safety of those on the ground.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by nmfire
      Two licensed pilots, one of which is an instructor, flying one of the most advanced small aircraft ever created, out scud-running around the biggest city in the country in poor weather conditions and neither thought there was a problem with this? And it ended just like almost every other "inadvertant continued VFR flight into IFR conditions" incident has... with a bunch of dead people and small burning pieces of aircraft all over the place. 127 seconds, that is all it takes. I'm sorry, I can find very little sympathy for either of the pilots in that airplance. They were both extremely stupid and acting wrecklessly negligent to for their own safety and the safety of those on the ground.
      Don't you understand!!!??? It's a conspiracy! The Government did it!!!
      "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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      • #48
        Today was the 99th annual FDNY Memorial Service. You can imagine 8,000+ FFs hearing about this while they were all in Manhattan today.

        Great job by the on-duty brothers.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by E229Lt
          Today was the 99th annual FDNY Memorial Service. You can imagine 8,000+ FFs hearing about this while they were all in Manhattan today.

          Great job by the on-duty brothers.
          First, I hope none of the injured firefighters are seriously hurt, and that all have a speedy recovery.

          Second, WOW ... 99th annual!!! You sure don't hear THAT very often.

          Third .... NO, I can't imagine the feelings New Yorkers likely experienced while this was happening, especially those 8,000+ firefighters. Heart-stopping, I'm sure.

          Two of the ladies I work with heard about it when they went to pick up lunch for our "Pizza Day" at work, and I just got home so haven't yet seen the news or read anything about it except for the posts on here.
          September 11th - Never Forget

          I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

          Sheri
          IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
          Honorary Flatlander

          RAY WAS HERE FIRST

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          • #50
            hmm, maybe the Yankee pitcher had enough after DETROITTTT, whooped them in the playoffs?

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            • #51
              Wow, a tragedy for sure, but damn. You guys from FDNY rock on your skills and ability to deal with that type of incident.
              My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
              "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
              George Mason
              Co-author of the Second Amendment
              during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
              Elevator Rescue Information

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              • #52
                Great job by the FDNY. You guys did NYC proud AGAIN. Wishing a speedy recovery to the injured brothers.
                Tom

                Never Forget 9-11-2001

                Stay safe out there!

                IACOJ Member

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                • #53
                  Glad to hear everyone from the FDNY made it out alright. If we were all wondering what the new EMS gear looked like, it was on plenty of the videos from the day. By chance did anyone record the bravest radio transmissions from this job?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by nmfire
                    . They were both extremely stupid and acting wrecklessly negligent to for their own safety and the safety of those on the ground.

                    were you in that plane with them? I don't think so. How do you know that they were acting with negligence? is this information from eye witnesses that say they were doing "acrobatics", the same witnesses that also said it took the FDNY 15+ minutes to arrive? So we can automatically throw that claim out the window, but not others?

                    there just is not enough information to place sole blame on the pilots, lets wait to see what unfolds, then we can rant.

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                    • #55
                      No, that isn't why. It is because I have a clue about aviation so I'm not just talking out my *** like those people. They were scud-running and flying into instrument conditions under visual flight rules. They were below legal and common sense altitudes because of this. They lost control or got disoriented or whatever and as result, they impacted an obstacle. This obstacle was nowhere near where they should have been flying. They were both trained in great detail why a day like to today in NYC was not a VFR sight-seeing day and why you don't scud-run it around tall objects.

                      There is nobody else to blame here. They were not on an IFR flight plan, they were not under anyone else's direction but their own. As a result of their negligence, they could have killed another hundred people. Bottom line, the pilot in command screwed up really bad the moment he walked out onto the apron to get in the plane.
                      Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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                      • #56
                        ..........................
                        Last edited by Nine3Probie; 07-28-2013, 05:47 PM.

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                        • #57
                          Anyone have a word on the 11 injured F.F.'s? I hope they are okay, godspeed to them and their familys.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by nmfire
                            No, that isn't why. It is because I have a clue about aviation so I'm not just talking out my *** like those people. They were scud-running and flying into instrument conditions under visual flight rules. They were below legal and common sense altitudes because of this. They lost control or got disoriented or whatever and as result, they impacted an obstacle. This obstacle was nowhere near where they should have been flying. They were both trained in great detail why a day like to today in NYC was not a VFR sight-seeing day and why you don't scud-run it around tall objects.

                            There is nobody else to blame here. They were not on an IFR flight plan, they were not under anyone else's direction but their own. As a result of their negligence, they could have killed another hundred people. Bottom line, the pilot in command screwed up really bad the moment he walked out onto the apron to get in the plane.
                            They were flying in an authorized VFR flight corridor, and since they were in class B airspace, they would be required to have a transponder with Mode C veil and NY TRACON would have them under radar surveillance.

                            Have you considered that they may have been doing some IFR flight training with Cory Lidle "under the hood"? The aircraft did issue a mayday, possibly for a flight control malfunction?
                            ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                            Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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                            • #59
                              they are saying there was a possible fuel problem.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                October 12th, As of 0025 hrs EDT...wire stories

                                By COLLEEN LONG
                                Associated Press Writer
                                NEW YORK (AP) - The two pilots took off from a suburban airport
                                for a journey above the sights of Manhattan. They looped around the
                                Statue of Liberty and Wall Street, turned north past the Brooklyn
                                Bridge and the Empire State Building.
                                Just moments after passing above the 59th Street Bridge, the
                                single-engine plane owned by New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle
                                disappeared from the radar. And just about 20 minutes after
                                takeoff, the plane slammed into a luxury condominium tower above
                                Manhattan's tony Upper East Side - a fiery and deadly finish to a
                                once-routine flight.
                                Lidle, a veteran pitcher and rookie pilot, was killed along with
                                his flight instructor after the crash that scattered burning metal
                                on the sidewalks below while creating momentary Sept. 11
                                flashbacks. The cause of the crash, reminiscent of the 1979 death
                                of Yankees star Thurman Munson in another plane wreck, remained
                                unknown.
                                "A sightseeing trip," said Mayor Michael Bloomberg at a news
                                conference.
                                Two residents of the building barely escaped with their lives
                                from an adjoining apartment after the plane exploded on contact,
                                sending thick black smoke above the city skyline as a four-alarm
                                fire raged high above 72nd Street.
                                "This is a terrible and shocking tragedy that has stunned the
                                entire Yankees organization," Yankees owner George Steinbrenner
                                said in a statement. He offered his condolences to Lidle's wife and
                                son.
                                Bloomberg said a flight instructor and a student pilot with 75
                                hours of experience were aboard and killed. The pair had circled
                                the Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor before heading uptown.
                                Both bodies were found on the street below, and the plane's engine
                                was found in one of the apartments turned into a four-alarm inferno
                                by the crash, Bloomberg said.
                                A federal official, speaking on condition of anonymity, had said
                                that authorities had a report that the plane sent a distress call
                                to the FAA before the crash.
                                But National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman
                                said at a late-night news conference that, "we've asked the FAA
                                and they have reviewed some aircraft-control tapes. At this point
                                they have no indication that there was a mayday call."
                                Hersman said debris was scattered everywhere at the crash scene,
                                including aircraft parts and headsets on the ground. The propeller
                                separated from engine. Investigators also obtained the pilot's log
                                book.
                                The Cirrus SR20 was manufactured in 2002 and purchased earlier
                                this year, Hersman said. The small aircraft has four seats and is
                                equipped with a parachute designed to let it float to earth in case
                                of a mishap. The parachute apparently did not engage after the
                                crash.
                                Lidle's passport was found on the street, according to a federal
                                official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the
                                investigation is ongoing.
                                More than a dozen firefighters police officers were taken to New
                                York Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical Center with minor
                                injuries.
                                On Sunday, the day after the Yankees were eliminated from the
                                playoffs, Lidle cleaned out his locker at Yankee Stadium and talked
                                about his interest in flying. He explained to reporters the process
                                of getting a pilot's license, and said he intended to fly back to
                                California in several days and planned to make a few stops.
                                Lidle, 34, a nine-year major league veteran with a wife and a
                                6-year-old boy, came to the Yankees from the Philadelphia Phillies
                                in a late-season trade. The journeyman pitched for seven teams
                                during a career in compiling an 82-78 lifetime record.
                                "No matter what's going on in your life, when you get up in
                                that plane, everything's gone," Lidle told a Comcast SportsNet
                                interviewer while flying his plane in April.
                                Large crowds gathered at the crash scene, with many people in
                                tears and others trying to reach loved ones by cell phone. Rain
                                started pouring at the scene at around 4 p.m., and people gazed up
                                at the smoke and fire as they covered their heads with plastic
                                bags; earlier, parts of the plane fell to the ground.
                                "I just saw something come across the sky and crash into that
                                building," said Young May Cha, 23, a medical student who was
                                walking along 72nd Street. "There was fire, debris ... The
                                explosion was very small."
                                Cha said it appeared the plane was "flying erratically" before
                                it slammed into The Belaire Condo.
                                "I was worried the building would explode, so I got out of
                                there fast," said Lori Claymont, who fled the adjoining building
                                in sweat pants.
                                The plane slammed into apartments that were 30 and 31 flights
                                above the street, but the floors are numbered at 40 and 41, and go
                                up to 50, even though the building is technically about 40 stories
                                high. "People number the buildings so they can feel like they live
                                at a higher floor," said Fire Commissioner Nick Scoppetta, who
                                compared it to eliminating the 13th floor in a building.
                                Mystery writer Carol Higgins Clark, daughter of author Mary
                                Higgins Clark, lives on the 38th floor of the building and was
                                coming home in a cab when she saw the smoke.
                                "Thank goodness I wasn't at my apartment writing at the time,"
                                she said. She described the building's residents as a mix of
                                actors, doctors, lawyers and writers, and people with second homes.
                                The crash struck fear in a city devastated by the attacks of
                                Sept. 11 five years ago. Witnesses said sirens echoed across the
                                east side of Manhattan as emergency workers rushed to the scene.
                                The crash triggered a loud bang. Broken glass and debris was strewn
                                around the neighborhood.
                                Fighter planes were scrambled over several cities across the
                                country in the aftermath of the crash, despite the quick assurances
                                that it was nothing more than an accident.
                                Richard Drutman, a professional photographer who lives on the
                                building's 11th floor, said he was speaking on the telephone when
                                he felt the building shake.
                                "There was a huge explosion. I looked out my window, and saw
                                what appeared to be pieces of wings, on fire, falling from the
                                sky," said Drutman, who quickly exited the building with his
                                girlfriend.
                                The address of the building is 524 E. 72nd Street - built in the
                                late 1980s between York Avenue and FDR Drive. The Belaire Condo has
                                183 apartments.
                                ---
                                Associated Press Writers Ronald Blum, Beth Fouhy, Adam Goldman,
                                Richard Pyle and Pat Milton contributed to this report.

                                (Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
                                Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
                                Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

                                *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
                                On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

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