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News: Aircraft crashes into NYC bldg

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  • nmfire
    replied
    Nice. I like the stop sign thing, that is great. I shoud get some for 6/24 at N04... the carrier landing.

    This is a video I made of coming into Block Island last weekend. My friend is the PIC since he has his license already and our other friend is in the back seat. I added some commericial airliner sound effects for comical value. It was windy as all hell!!

    http://www.kb1fpd.com/flying/block_island.wmv (30mb)
    http://www.kb1fpd.com/flying/block_island_small.wmv (5mb)
    Last edited by nmfire; 10-13-2006, 10:55 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BFDNJFF
    replied
    Thats my runway right there .................

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptainGonzo
    replied
    Originally posted by nmfire
    I'm doing my training on a Piper Warrior at KHVN which is a Class D regional airport. The main runway is 5600ft long so I'm spoiled. I love flying to little tiny airports though. There is one in my hometown that is 1800ft, the last 10ft of which are underwater at high tide. Me and my other friend that was taking lessons with me and got his license in August like to refer to it as a carrier landing. If you don't nail it, you go around. There is no bouncing or floating in ground effect. It is either mains down in the first 800ft with the approach speed right on target or you have to abort.... well, you don't HAVE to, but if you don't, the only thing preventing an overrun into the water is standing on the brakes and it isn't good practice to need to do that.
    ahh... runway2/20.. hell, I would love for 9B1's runway 14/32 to be 3626 feet long! We are a non towered, non controlled airport and being 26 miles west of Boston require mode C veil and transponders.

    Intenions are made over the CTAF frequency for the airport. Whenever a transient pilot arrives, the airport manager gives them specific instructions on what to do to land safely.. many a time he has had to tell someone to "go around" beacuse they came in too fast.

    We have one approach over a treeline on 32, full flaps, once over the trees and the numbers cut the power and allow th e aircraft to settle. At the end of runway 32 is a fence with a "stop" sign affixed. On the other side of the fence is Farm Road. The approach to runway 14 is over said road and fence, but relatively clear, which is also a problem because pilots tend to come in a tad too fast. At the end of runway 14 is also a "stop" sign. Many transient pilots ask what's the deal with the stop signs?".. to which the airport manager states "they are there to remind you to stop so you go off the end of the runway!"

    Leave a comment:


  • nmfire
    replied
    I'm doing my training on a Piper Warrior at KHVN which is a Class D regional airport. The main runway is 5600ft long so I'm spoiled. I love flying to little tiny airports though. There is one in my hometown that is 1800ft, the last 10ft of which are underwater at high tide. Me and my other friend that was taking lessons with me and got his license in August like to refer to it as a carrier landing. If you don't nail it, you go around. There is no bouncing or floating in ground effect. It is either mains down in the first 800ft with the approach speed right on target or you have to abort.... well, you don't HAVE to, but if you don't, the only thing preventing an overrun into the water is standing on the brakes and it isn't good practice to need to do that.
    Last edited by nmfire; 10-13-2006, 09:38 PM.

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  • CaptainGonzo
    replied
    Originally posted by E229Lt
    A grate? How about an SUV?

    March 6, 2006
    A manhole explosion sent an SUV flying onto a Bronx firefighter - but he was miraculously saved by his helmet when he crashed clean through a side window.


    Firefighter Marc Kroenung, a 33-year-old married father of two, was helping extinguish a manhole fire Saturday when an underground explosion sent the Cadillac Escalade hurtling upward.

    The giant SUV came down sideways, with the driver's side window shattering against Kroenung's helmet as the auto crashed to the pavement. He was left standing inside the overturned SUV.
    He has to be the luckiest person on the planet.

    Have you gone on some solos yet Gonz ? Talk about scaring the bageezes out of yah ! I had my permit and just let it expire due to money situation. I had around 30-40 hours in a piper cherokee. I may start back up again soon.
    not yet..still mastering crosswind landings. One approach is over a treeline, and you literally have to drop in and cut the power over the numbers. Add a crosswind component and it's a tad hairy!

    Leave a comment:


  • E229Lt
    replied
    Originally posted by nyckftbl
    Yeah, haha. We had a manhole fire, and one of the 4x6 grates in the street blew up, and the covers flew about 40 feet in the air. I've seen manhole covers blow before, but never an entire grate thing. Absolutely nuts. Good thing I brought a change of underwear on the detail....
    A grate? How about an SUV?
    March 6, 2006
    A manhole explosion sent an SUV flying onto a Bronx firefighter - but he was miraculously saved by his helmet when he crashed clean through a side window.


    Firefighter Marc Kroenung, a 33-year-old married father of two, was helping extinguish a manhole fire Saturday when an underground explosion sent the Cadillac Escalade hurtling upward.

    The giant SUV came down sideways, with the driver's side window shattering against Kroenung's helmet as the auto crashed to the pavement. He was left standing inside the overturned SUV.

    Leave a comment:


  • BFDNJFF
    replied
    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    Yes, it is extremely easy to become disoriented. I had my 1st bout with it during a flight lesson on a hazy. hot and humid day. My CFI was having me do some air work doing alternating 360 degree turns at a 30 degrees angle of bank, then at 45 degrees in a Cessna 172. I felt a bit of vertigo after 4 turns at 45 degrees so my CFI took over the controls and got us back into straight and level flight.

    He told me to trust the instruments... the second time around we did it and went a lot better. My CFI flew P3 Orions for the Navy out of Brunswick NAS and has a lot of IFR flight time.

    I still have a ways to go before getting my private pilot ticket. I have 32 hours of flight time and ground school so far, learning at an airport with a 1650 foot runway (9B1, Marlborough Airport). It's a challenge.

    Have you gone on some solos yet Gonz ? Talk about scaring the bageezes out of yah ! I had my permit and just let it expire due to money situation. I had around 30-40 hours in a piper cherokee. I may start back up again soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • nyckftbl
    replied
    Yeah, haha. We had a manhole fire, and one of the 4x6 grates in the street blew up, and the covers flew about 40 feet in the air. I've seen manhole covers blow before, but never an entire grate thing. Absolutely nuts. Good thing I brought a change of underwear on the detail....

    Leave a comment:


  • FFFRED
    replied
    Originally posted by nyckftbl
    Guys, he crashed because the building got in the way.

    On a serious note, I happened to speak to a pilot on Thursday (after a night of hell detailed to midtown manhattan, btw)
    Should have taken the Thursday 6x det. to midtown...would have really seen hell up close and personal that night.




    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 10-13-2006, 07:28 PM.

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  • CaptainGonzo
    replied
    Originally posted by nmfire
    People that have never flown an aircraft can never totally appriciate how your brain handles sitational awareness and stability. Your inner-ear manages it wonderfully as long as you also have visual references and physical contact with the ground. Your brain can combine all three and it knows exactly what is going on. Take one of them away and it starts getting a little funky. We can walk with our eyes closed alright becase our feet are on the ground and we only move if we move our feet. Actual balance gets a little off but it is manageable. Take away visual reference AND your connection to the ground putting you in 3-Dimmentional space and forget it. Without IFR training, you will be dead in less than 2 minutes. The brain just can't do it and your equalibrium goes totally haywire.

    Before I started flying, I didn't get it either. That ended the first time I went on a flight over long island sound on a very very hazy day in the summer. There was no horizon and nothing to see on the ground. Within 30 seconds of lifting off, I was rolling through 30 degrees and barely in a climb. "Holy crap". The entire trip was major mental workout trying to force myself to ignore the haywire indications about my orientation and focus only on the instruments. (this was with an instrument rated instructor obviously so it was a learning experience).

    This is what killed JFK and countless other pilots that fly into intrument weather conditions without the training. It takes, on average, 127 seconds to become a lawn dart when you fly into instrument condition without an instrument rating. You try correcting for an attitude that isn't real. You end up rolling inverted or pitchin into a stall. A spin results and you start spiraling down. You still can't figure out wtf is going on. Unless you recognize the spin and take corrective action very quickly, it is over.

    My favorite saying... "Anxiety is your body's way of saying that you already screwed up".
    Yes, it is extremely easy to become disoriented. I had my 1st bout with it during a flight lesson on a hazy. hot and humid day. My CFI was having me do some air work doing alternating 360 degree turns at a 30 degrees angle of bank, then at 45 degrees in a Cessna 172. I felt a bit of vertigo after 4 turns at 45 degrees so my CFI took over the controls and got us back into straight and level flight.

    He told me to trust the instruments... the second time around we did it and went a lot better. My CFI flew P3 Orions for the Navy out of Brunswick NAS and has a lot of IFR flight time.

    I still have a ways to go before getting my private pilot ticket. I have 32 hours of flight time and ground school so far, learning at an airport with a 1650 foot runway (9B1, Marlborough Airport). It's a challenge.

    Leave a comment:


  • nyckftbl
    replied
    Guys, he crashed because the building got in the way.

    On a serious note, I happened to speak to a pilot on Thursday (after a night of hell detailed to midtown manhattan, btw) and basically said what Vinnie said, that we could sit here and name hundreds of reasons why the plane went down. Until the NTSB finishes the investigation, it doesnt matter what we think.


    On a side note, maybe its a big conspiracy. A-Rod's plane just skidded off a runway in California. Its certainly one way for George to get rid of them....
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 10-13-2006, 06:18 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • nmfire
    replied
    People that have never flown an aircraft can never totally appriciate how your brain handles sitational awareness and stability. Your inner-ear manages it wonderfully as long as you also have visual references and physical contact with the ground. Your brain can combine all three and it knows exactly what is going on. Take one of them away and it starts getting a little funky. We can walk with our eyes closed alright becase our feet are on the ground and we only move if we move our feet. Actual balance gets a little off but it is manageable. Take away visual reference AND your connection to the ground putting you in 3-Dimmentional space and forget it. Without IFR training, you will be dead in less than 2 minutes. The brain just can't do it and your equalibrium goes totally haywire.

    Before I started flying, I didn't get it either. That ended the first time I went on a flight over long island sound on a very very hazy day in the summer. There was no horizon and nothing to see on the ground. Within 30 seconds of lifting off, I was rolling through 30 degrees and barely in a climb. "Holy crap". The entire trip was major mental workout trying to force myself to ignore the haywire indications about my orientation and focus only on the instruments. (this was with an instrument rated instructor obviously so it was a learning experience).

    This is what killed JFK and countless other pilots that fly into intrument weather conditions without the training. It takes, on average, 127 seconds to become a lawn dart when you fly into instrument condition without an instrument rating. You try correcting for an attitude that isn't real. You end up rolling inverted or pitchin into a stall. A spin results and you start spiraling down. You still can't figure out wtf is going on. Unless you recognize the spin and take corrective action very quickly, it is over.

    My favorite saying... "Anxiety is your body's way of saying that you already screwed up".
    Last edited by nmfire; 10-13-2006, 04:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • FFFRED
    replied
    Bravo to the men of Engine Co's. 44, 23 39, and 8 who were responsible for the stretching and operating of the handlines into those two floors.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- This job went to 4 alarms plus a number of special calls.

    Leave a comment:


  • VinnieB
    replied
    Originally posted by E229Lt
    Here is an interesting quote:



    It is from the following website:

    http://netlib.bell-labs.com/who/sape...son/index.html

    Very Very good find. I can remember doing 60 and 2 over NYC in a
    KC-130.....a tactical transport with 4 turbojet engines....and we would get bounced around A-LOT. And at 800' for in that area...the wind patterns are freakey because of the buildings....and environment here in NY.

    Leave a comment:


  • VinnieB
    replied
    Originally posted by nmfire
    But we are talking about a SR20, not a commercial airliner, jet, twin-prop, fighter jet, or C130 bomber.
    The C-130 is a turboprop, transport plane.....not a bomber...although it does drop the larged conventional bomb in the US inventory...it is NOT a bomber. I worked on hercs and flew on them for 8 years. I was a CDQAR for powerline (engines, props, and fuel systems) and as a Flight Mechanic, I was trained in all the systems the A/C had, from avionics to safety and survival gear. Just about every A/C I have come across has redundent systems...especially anything that has to do with flight controls and its sub-systems.

    A-lot can happen in the way of physiology too....red outs, black outs, autokinetc illusions, and vertigo come to mind....I doubt the first two happened....because the A/C can not sustain the g's neccessary, but the later are possible....even a 1g...vertigo is very possible.....and AKI is always present. Another thing that affect flying ability is booze. Vertigo can be experianced even on straight and level flight. ETOH takes 12 hours to disappear from the inner ear. And the inner ear affects your equalibium.

    Like I said....there are factors upon factors that could be the cause. I am sure the NTSB will figure it out.

    Leave a comment:

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