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Junior Firefighter Killed In Flooding

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  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Bones ...

    You know and I know that is the right answer, but let's be honest, most firefighters feel that we are the fire department, and we need to do something.

    Yes, there are disciplined deepartments out there and disciplined firefighters that know thier limits, but how many stories have we read or how many videos have we watched of departments attempting not only water rescues, but also cave rescues, collapse rescues and confined space recues without the right equipment and training. How many firefighters have been killed attemtping advanced rescues without advanced skills or equipment because they felt they had to do something?

    To me, this problem goes right back to the culture that has been created in some departments that we have to do something when we are called, even if we are not prepared in terms of training or equipment do deal with it. I guess my question should be rephrased to "What can we do to change the culture to prevent this from happening?".

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  • Bones42
    replied
    Originally posted by LaFireEducator
    Is there an answer?
    Yes. Don't do what you are not trained to do.

    Leave a comment:


  • LaFireEducator
    replied
    Unfortuantly, attempted water rescues are a major killer of firefighters in general.

    Water rescues happen so infrequently in most departments that we neither spend much time training for them, or spend much money purchasing the right equipment. So when they do happen, most departments make the effort without the any training and without the right safety equipment.

    Unfortunatly, I have no answers for this situation as in tight budget times it's difficult for most departments to justify the purchase of equipment that may be used once every 5 years, and it's difficult to justify limited training time and/or dollars on a skill that will be used rarely (if ever) when there are so many basic, everyday training needs.

    Flooding can happen anywhere, and honestly most folks, including most firefighters don't recognize the dangers (often die to lack of training) of even relativly slow-moving water. Water rescues can happen on even the mildest rivers and smallest ponds and lakes, yet many deepartments that have these in thier areas (and most do in some form) aren't prepared in terms of training or equipment. Is there an answer? Maybe that should be a focus of discussion.

    Leave a comment:


  • RES81CUE
    replied
    Questions????

    I would like to know if this FD had an organized junior FF program or was this a way to get a few more members. Further I would like to know if anyone actually was incharge of the training of the juniors or did they sit in on firefighter training. I am also from Arkansas and we have tried to organize a junior program but, our county and state insurance will not allow coverage until you have reached 18 yr old. Just tring to read between the lines......
    Last edited by RES81CUE; 09-29-2006, 07:47 AM. Reason: more thought

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  • enginegirl
    replied
    thoughts and prayers

    Such a tragic incident. My thoughts and prayers are with the family. I am glad there are junior FF's who bring all their enthusiasm and hard work to this job. Sounds like some errors in judgment regarding the attempted water rescue. Everybody stay safe and may that young fellow rest in peace.

    Leave a comment:


  • firemedic037
    replied
    A sad story. I think sometimes we as firefighters recognize the danger level of fires because they are our primary focus. I believe we dont fully appreciate the danger to ourselves at rescues.

    Leave a comment:


  • firefighter7160
    replied
    Rip

    Such a sad story.

    Leave a comment:


  • SAFD46Truck
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefReason
    Junior firefighter or not, I have to admire that this 16 year old, instead of sitting in front of the TV playing video games and doing other teen age activities, he chose to follow his heart in trying to help others.
    Tragic and my condolences to his family and fire department.
    CR
    I agree. I just wish we'd stop killing members of the next generation of firefighters by putting them in harms way much too soon. SPFDRum is right, we can be our own worst enemy.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefReason
    replied
    Junior firefighter or not, I have to admire that this 16 year old, instead of sitting in front of the TV playing video games and doing other teen age activities, he chose to follow his heart in trying to help others.
    Tragic and my condolences to his family and fire department.
    CR

    Leave a comment:


  • jasper45
    replied
    A tragidy for the families and my condolances go out to them, but...
    What type a fabulous rescue was going to be attempted in their personal vehicle?

    I swear, we can be are own worse enemies...

    I agree completely.

    I will also say that children have no place at any type of emergency scene, period.

    Also, why is that when someone says there is a difference between vollunteer and career, everyone kicks and screams, and criticizes that position. My department is all career, and we don't let kids ride our rigs.

    Leave a comment:


  • SPFDRum
    replied
    A tragidy for the families and my condolances go out to them, but...
    What type a fabulous rescue was going to be attempted in their personal vehicle? Is it customary for this department to have swift water rescue equipment stored in a chiefs POV?
    I swear, we can be our own worse enemies...
    Last edited by SPFDRum; 09-28-2006, 06:11 PM. Reason: lousy spelling

    Leave a comment:


  • kd7fds
    replied
    Our Juniors may come to the scene on the third truck. When at the scene, they are used as runners and they work the rehab area, making sure bottles are changed out, enough water is on hand, stuff like that. On large incidents, the Chief has used them as recorders.

    When they turn 18, they have a good sense of scene safety, they understand the importance of rehab, and a really good grasp of the incident command system.

    Leave a comment:


  • coldfront
    replied
    Volunteer FD,s can be covered by child labor laws/OSHA

    Follow the law! Adolescent workers are protected by two laws enforced by the Department of Labor (DOL):

    The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), and the Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSH) Act. Each state also has child labor laws. Employers must comply with both federal and state laws. When federal and state standards are different, the rules that provide the most protection to youth workers will apply.
    The FLSA and state laws provide child labor provisions that were designed to protect childern!


    Employers must make any employees exposed to hazardous materials aware of the hazards and train them to protect themselves from these hazards [1910.1200].



    A vounteer fire department junior program may under the law have a empolyee employer relationship!Keep juniors in the station.No high risk operations.

    Leave a comment:


  • fdsq10
    replied
    This is a very tragic incident that could have been avoided. First my thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of this young man. I'm sure we will hear more on this incident as the investigation is ongoing. Yes a bad decision was made allowing this teenager to participate in this type of incident. If he was not allowed to fight fires why would you allow him to participate in a water rescue incident. I started out a as Junior but we had rules and regulations to follow. We were there to learn the basics about the fire service, preparing us for the future. We were allowed to ride the rig to calls but we were limited to our participation. I not against a Junior squad program, if you have such a program learn from this incident and make sure your not allowing the JUNIOR members of your department participate, teach them it will save them and other firefighters down the road. Again, to the family, friends, and members of your department our prayers are with each of you. STAY SAFE.

    Leave a comment:


  • tbonetrexler
    replied
    Originally posted by RES81CUE
    We do not have juniors here. My question why was he going on a call?
    Im a Junior firefighter, and i respond to any and all calls that i can make. What trucks you can ride is dependent on your training (vehicle rescue to ride rescue, structure to ride first engine, etc.) I have all my required training, so i am allowed on any call i respond to.

    Leave a comment:

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