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Junior Firefighter Killed In Flooding

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  • #16
    Our Juniors may come to the scene on the third truck. When at the scene, they are used as runners and they work the rehab area, making sure bottles are changed out, enough water is on hand, stuff like that. On large incidents, the Chief has used them as recorders.

    When they turn 18, they have a good sense of scene safety, they understand the importance of rehab, and a really good grasp of the incident command system.

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    • #17
      A tragidy for the families and my condolances go out to them, but...
      What type a fabulous rescue was going to be attempted in their personal vehicle? Is it customary for this department to have swift water rescue equipment stored in a chiefs POV?
      I swear, we can be our own worse enemies...
      Last edited by SPFDRum; 09-28-2006, 06:11 PM. Reason: lousy spelling
      My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
      "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
      George Mason
      Co-author of the Second Amendment
      during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
      Elevator Rescue Information

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      • #18
        A tragidy for the families and my condolances go out to them, but...
        What type a fabulous rescue was going to be attempted in their personal vehicle?

        I swear, we can be are own worse enemies...

        I agree completely.

        I will also say that children have no place at any type of emergency scene, period.

        Also, why is that when someone says there is a difference between vollunteer and career, everyone kicks and screams, and criticizes that position. My department is all career, and we don't let kids ride our rigs.

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        • #19
          Junior firefighter or not, I have to admire that this 16 year old, instead of sitting in front of the TV playing video games and doing other teen age activities, he chose to follow his heart in trying to help others.
          Tragic and my condolences to his family and fire department.
          CR
          Visit www.iacoj.com
          Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
          RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ChiefReason
            Junior firefighter or not, I have to admire that this 16 year old, instead of sitting in front of the TV playing video games and doing other teen age activities, he chose to follow his heart in trying to help others.
            Tragic and my condolences to his family and fire department.
            CR
            I agree. I just wish we'd stop killing members of the next generation of firefighters by putting them in harms way much too soon. SPFDRum is right, we can be our own worst enemy.

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            • #21
              Rip

              Such a sad story.

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              • #22
                A sad story. I think sometimes we as firefighters recognize the danger level of fires because they are our primary focus. I believe we dont fully appreciate the danger to ourselves at rescues.

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                • #23
                  thoughts and prayers

                  Such a tragic incident. My thoughts and prayers are with the family. I am glad there are junior FF's who bring all their enthusiasm and hard work to this job. Sounds like some errors in judgment regarding the attempted water rescue. Everybody stay safe and may that young fellow rest in peace.

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                  • #24
                    Questions????

                    I would like to know if this FD had an organized junior FF program or was this a way to get a few more members. Further I would like to know if anyone actually was incharge of the training of the juniors or did they sit in on firefighter training. I am also from Arkansas and we have tried to organize a junior program but, our county and state insurance will not allow coverage until you have reached 18 yr old. Just tring to read between the lines......
                    Last edited by RES81CUE; 09-29-2006, 07:47 AM. Reason: more thought

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                    • #25
                      Unfortuantly, attempted water rescues are a major killer of firefighters in general.

                      Water rescues happen so infrequently in most departments that we neither spend much time training for them, or spend much money purchasing the right equipment. So when they do happen, most departments make the effort without the any training and without the right safety equipment.

                      Unfortunatly, I have no answers for this situation as in tight budget times it's difficult for most departments to justify the purchase of equipment that may be used once every 5 years, and it's difficult to justify limited training time and/or dollars on a skill that will be used rarely (if ever) when there are so many basic, everyday training needs.

                      Flooding can happen anywhere, and honestly most folks, including most firefighters don't recognize the dangers (often die to lack of training) of even relativly slow-moving water. Water rescues can happen on even the mildest rivers and smallest ponds and lakes, yet many deepartments that have these in thier areas (and most do in some form) aren't prepared in terms of training or equipment. Is there an answer? Maybe that should be a focus of discussion.
                      Train to fight the fires you fight.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by LaFireEducator
                        Is there an answer?
                        Yes. Don't do what you are not trained to do.
                        "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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                        • #27
                          Bones ...

                          You know and I know that is the right answer, but let's be honest, most firefighters feel that we are the fire department, and we need to do something.

                          Yes, there are disciplined deepartments out there and disciplined firefighters that know thier limits, but how many stories have we read or how many videos have we watched of departments attempting not only water rescues, but also cave rescues, collapse rescues and confined space recues without the right equipment and training. How many firefighters have been killed attemtping advanced rescues without advanced skills or equipment because they felt they had to do something?

                          To me, this problem goes right back to the culture that has been created in some departments that we have to do something when we are called, even if we are not prepared in terms of training or equipment do deal with it. I guess my question should be rephrased to "What can we do to change the culture to prevent this from happening?".
                          Train to fight the fires you fight.

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                          • #28
                            So you all know I didnt make this or want to make it a carrer vollie issue I am just stating facts. I live up here by the mighty miss and we have no swimming requirements at ANYY paid or vollie department. I agree if you cant swim stay away from the water.


                            Now about this low water bridge. There isnt one spanning the Spring in this area. I believe they were on the road to the camp ground and went over one on the creek but not the actual river. I have canoed this river and I dont remember any bridge like this (granted it has been 15 years or so and this may be a new structure so dont hold me to this)Also if the flood waters were as high as stated it would be up on the road itself not just the bridge so it could have obscured it.


                            Chief reason amen bro! The reason this young lad was along is simple. Hardy has 600 people Williford not much more. This area is more of a retirement villiage area. My great grandmother lives in Cherokee Villiage which is staffed by paid firefighters. However over in the likes of Hardy, Williford and Ozark Acres the guys are older memebers retirees from up here in the north. These guys worked for Farmal Case and Deere and retired a loooong time ago!. SO getting the kids not only involved but using them to help in CERTAIN situations is something of a neccesity in this area.I am not saying put packs on them and send them in but they can hold a line out side and spray water to keep structures nearby cool.Or hold a rope in a water rescue situation, or fill in the blank.


                            All in all its a sad tradgedy lets just leave it at that. We have all made bad errors in judgement, so lets lay off this guy for his hes already got enough whipping from himself he doesnt need it from us.

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                            • #29
                              I'm from a couple counties over from Hardy, and here we do things diffirently than most. The actual firefighter had his step-son and his friend in the car. Out here when we are paged out, most people come from whereever they are to the scene. So the son actualy responding to the call is probably wrong. He was with dad when the pager goes off. And while it will send most of you screeming, it is not unusual for the kids to come to the scene and stay in the vehicles. And the word 'bridge" may be misleading. The creeks around here don't have bridges, but concrete poured and the water flows over the slab year round. I beleave that it was a creek that he was trying to cross when he lost the vehicle.

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                              • #30
                                Very sad; but avoidable. Strickly a management issue....when will WE learn. Children deserve a chance to grow old! No one can convince me a 16 year old should be put in a life threatening situation and that includes RIDING ON APPARATUS!

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