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  • #31
    Originally posted by firestanggt
    thanks

    i love you too
    anytime sugar!
    J
    It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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    • #32
      Well there are a couple of things that really need to be looked at. You definitely can not descimnate due to religion, in hiring practices. But we need to look at the hiring statutes for the FD. I am sure one of the questions asked is if hired can the person perform the job duties and accept responsibilties. If in the description there is a statement that the fire fighter will, at a moments notice, need to stop whatever they are doing and respond to a emergency call (or something in more legal like) then the FD could have a case. If not, then the fire figher has a case. But either way I beleive the situation should have been handled differently. There are many other roles in a FD that the fire fighter could perfrom besides a front line firefighter.

      For the recording, I do not know how that could be legal, or rather hold up in any type of court case. Before the fire fighter played the tape did he prove beyond any doubt that the other person on the tape was the officer? If a professional did not analyze the recording I do not see how it can be considered proof. But of course that all depends on the state laws also. I also beleive that in Washington both parties are required to be aware of the recording in the workplace. That holds true for employers and employees. If that is true then the employee could be terminated for his action regardless of what the office may have said.

      Just remember though that Title VII of the American Civil Rights Act does provide protection from descrimination against religion but it is not a blanket law. If a religion does not allow an individual to perform job duties then they can be reassigned or even terminated or at the beginning first of not hired. It is not the employers responsibilty to know what the religion requires but the applicants responsibilty to inform the employer of the specail requirements (if there are any) and then the employer has the responsibility of determining if the applicant can meet the requirements in the statute that are given to the applicant (it also must be based without bias). That is important to say becasue the employer or officer can not have any more requirements than what is on the job description. In other words he may think that washing all of firehouse dishes and apparatus by the applicants (probies) self is a requirement but if it is not in the job description it really is not a requirement (but it is a right of passage). The employer must also attempt to make good faith efforts toward accomodating the needs of the employee, that is if passed the hiring process and has already perfomred the duties in the past. That means they must attempt to adjust the current positions job description or offer a postion of equal value that suits the needs of the employee. They do not have to create a postion though. It also needs to be determined how long the practice has been going on. If it has gone unchecked or accepted by a previous officer then I do not beleive much can be done about it.


      OK I have rambled along long enough. If anyone really wants to look more into this look for the book Employee/Employer's Legal Guide by Knowles Publishing.

      Comment


      • #33
        I need to say a few more things.....

        The media sucks.....

        The only way to look at it is from a legal stand point. The feds mess up a lot of stuff but the Civil Rights Act and following additions are some of the best things they ever did.

        The Bill of Rights covers the Freedom of Religion. Nothing or noone is saying he can not be Muslim or any other religion and be on the fire department.

        And I want to reaffirm that times have changed. The was the situation was handled would have been accepted 20 years ago but not now.

        I have some Muslim friends. i will ask them there point of view.

        I hope this gets resolved because that is all the fire service needs is something to give us a black eye or saying we are descriminatory.

        Comment


        • #34
          After speeking with a few Muslims at work and asking them what would they do in the situation if they were praying and a call were to come in. The responses were all generaly the same. They stated that they would stop praying (they used a word I forget what its called) and respond to the call. They stated its Gods will to help people and he would understand for a situation like that.

          My guess is that there is way more to the story then we are getting.
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          ------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by mcfd45
            All persons have the right to follow the religion they choose to, this is a protected right. Muslims are supposed to face the Hajj 5 times a day and pray on the little carpet thingy. Christians are supposed to go to church on the sabath, whenever that may be. Seventh day adventists are not supposed to go to work from sundown friday till sundown saturday. So would it be ok for a firefighter to never work a friday or a saturday? Do volunteers respond from church on sunday morning?
            Why has everyone in this country gone so soft??? Of course he has a right to pray, just not if it interferes with his job. Does he have the right to drop the pipe at a fire and pray? He can do whatever the hell he wants to, just not on the fire department. If he can't make the rig - leave him. If he misses three runs - fire him. It's not "delicate", "hard", or, most laughably "a test of our melting pot". It's a job, either you can do it or you can't. If you can't make the rig and perform your duties then get the hell out.
            I am a complacent liability to the fire service

            Comment


            • #36
              The alleged incident that generated the complaint was that the firefighter was late/unresponsive in getting to his rig that was leaving to go to another fire station for an administrative activity.

              *This* armchair quarterback perceives a lack of communication between the firefighter - company officer - battalion commander.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by MikeWard
                The alleged incident that generated the complaint was that the firefighter was late/unresponsive in getting to his rig that was leaving to go to another fire station for an administrative activity.

                *This* armchair quarterback perceives a lack of communication between the firefighter - company officer - battalion commander.
                Or perhaps a fireman that needs to focus more on his job while he is at work.
                I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by MikeWard
                  The alleged incident that generated the complaint was that the firefighter was late/unresponsive in getting to his rig that was leaving to go to another fire station for an administrative activity.

                  *This* armchair quarterback perceives a lack of communication between the firefighter - company officer - battalion commander.

                  Ah the plot thickens , glad to see a DC FF respond with some more info.
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                  ------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BFDNJFF
                    Ah the plot thickens , glad to see a DC FF respond with some more info.
                    Not quite . . . just a retired guy from a nearby county who knows/has worked with some DCFEMS brothers.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      As quoted from a member's post on another forum:
                      Since the Guys on number one can't say nothing about this here is goes!

                      Let's get a couple things straight This is NOT a news story! News is sopposed to have some facts in it.This is a ploy to mislead with flat out lies, Comments out of context and a drive for attention by a so called fireman looking for revenge and a free ride.

                      Fact:
                      1. The Memorandum on May 20 stated Truck 15 report to Engine 6 for wellness 1330 Hrs. on June 15, 2006. yeah we sign those stating we read them.

                      2. At line up that morning it was stated Truck 15 is to report to engine 6 at 1330 hrs

                      3. The POS fireman li never made mention to anyone where or what he was doing that afternoon.

                      4. That so called devoute Muslim does not pray regularly at 1330 Hrs or any other time in the day or has he ever requested that a time be set aside for him.

                      5. The bells were rung over the PA "Truck ,Truck lets go truck to Engine 6".

                      6. After five minutes time an extended period of bells were rung followed by "Truck lets go" by another fireman.

                      7. Now five minutes after the second set of bells and pushing the 10 minute mark from the original call a quick look in the bunk room, locker room, sitting room, office and rear parking lot was made. They were not found.

                      8. At this point the bells rung a 3rd time and a call for "Truck 15 LINE UP" was made.

                      9. His stated response of 20 or 30 seconds was not even accurate for the time it took to finnally emerge from the back locker room. It was apoximately one minute or more.

                      10. The statement being made on the tape is not the complete conversaton and is taken out of context. EXAMPLE. "a worthless, lazy, in bed at 9am, argumenative, backstabbing, looking for a free ride jerk. If it wasn't for that "I LIKE HIM" Now if that were recorded and you played the last part "I LIKE HIM" it might not fully show what my true feelings are.

                      There you go some of the real facts on this bull**** story that is totally ridiculous and never been aloud to be put on TV. This not ony makes a Our Great dept look bad it will have to make you wonder next time you see this POS if he is going to record something on you out of context and use it to better himself.
                      ***NOTE- the above quote is NOT my own, NOR has it been proven to be based on facts, it is merely a member's thoughts who APPEARS to POSSIBLY be connected to the area.***

                      I thought that might add an interesting perspective to the conversation... you may now continue on...
                      Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.

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