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  • How are you paid???

    I have searched this sight quite a bit and have found there are as many ways to get firefighters to come to work is there are stars in the sky… My questions are actually related to Kelly Days. Currently we work a straight 24/48 hour schedule on a 28 day FSLA rotation. We are paid for what we work, when we work it. So some of our checks are 96 hour checks and the other 2 are 120 hour checks. I understand that this works out to be an average of 56 hours per week. The city is looking at Kelly Days. Obviously the best would be the 21 day cycles with a Kelly day every 7th shift. When I put it to paper though we wind up with a 72 hour check every third check if your Kelly day is Monday, Tuesday, Thursday or Friday… Those of you on a 21 day cycle- Are your hours averaged so that you are paid the same every check? If not do you just cope with the 25% shorter check when it hits? The Union would like to move to move closer to a 24/72 schedule- The city does not want to hire that many people with out going to 12 hour shifts. I am also doing my final College paper on this topic so any information will be extremely helpful. Thanks.


    Keep it in the House and be safe!

  • #2
    Or you could do like my department, and pay all of the supression personnel 3 hours of overtime on 2 out of every 3 paychecks. This eliminates having to schedule Kelly days for 500 people....
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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    • #3
      In my house, we work a straight 24/48 on a 28 day cycle. Hours are averaged so every check is the same except the last check of the cycle which has 4 hours at time and a half (if you didn't take any time off in the 28 days at which point it would be 4 hours at straight time). We also receive comp time for off duty calls and training.

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      • #4
        Me- We work the 3/4 schedule. (A four day once a week) that averages a 56 hour work week and the FSLA pay is always the same.

        The 24/48 schedule blows. You guys need to get away from that. No four day breaks.

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        • #5
          The 24/48 schedule blows. You guys need to get away from that. No four day breaks.

          Speak for yourself, I'll take my 'five-days' over 'four-days' any time, along with not averaging 56 hour work weeks.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by CALFFBOU
            The 24/48 schedule blows. You guys need to get away from that. No four day breaks.

            You would be correct! the 24/72 is much better. gives you a 42 hour work week, and taking one day off will give you a seven day break, three days leave will get give you fifteen days off.....
            Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
            In memory of
            Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
            Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

            IACOJ Budget Analyst

            I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

            www.gdvfd18.com

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            • #7
              Another schedule...

              My FD work 10's and 14's (2 ten hour days, 2 fourteen hour nights, four days off)

              Our pay is based on the average 42 hour week.

              If you work a tour of duty on OT, let's say a 10 hour day between your nights. you get your 42 hour pay plus the 10 hour OT trick at time and a half. Ditto for a 14 hour OT trick beween your days.

              Also figured into the salary equation are educational benefits, EMT stipends, longevity and night differential pay, which also is added to the OT rate.

              Harve, for me, 4 tours of duty taken as vacation equals 12 days off in a row.. nice!
              ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
              Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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              • #8
                we work what we call a three day cycle. one on one off, after the third day we go on a 4 day break. everyone likes the shift although gets a little tough if you get hired back for overtime that could give you 72 hours before you see home.

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                • #9
                  still new to this. what is a kelly day?
                  J
                  It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fireguy176
                    Obviously the best would be the 21 day cycles with a Kelly day every 7th shift. When I put it to paper though we wind up with a 72 hour check every third check if your Kelly day is Monday, Tuesday, Thursday or Friday… Those of you on a 21 day cycle- Are your hours averaged so that you are paid the same every check? If not do you just cope with the 25% shorter check when it hits?
                    We work the 24/48 Kelly day schedule on a 21 day rotation working an average or 48 hrs per week. Because our pay week is Monday to Sunday if your kelly day is Thursday you work a consistant 48 hours every week, but if your Kelly day is Tuesday you will work a 24 hour week, a 48 hour week, and a 72 hour week. because it averages to 48 hours we are paid 48 hours every week, for a consistant check. So even if you work an OT shift on your short week you are still paid 48hrs straight time plus OT. Works out well, I like the 5 days off, but most of us would rather be on a 24/72 if we had the personel to do so.

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                    • #11
                      We are exactly like Captain Gonzo. Love the 4 days off
                      This space for rent

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                      • #12
                        We work the 24/48 w/kelly days which is about 7 per year. Our city takes out base salary by rank/title and divides it up into 26 pay periods. The base pay is the same but there are some fluctuations due to OT or out of title pay.

                        Someone asked about "KELLY days"...here ya go...

                        Some departments have "Kelly Days". What is that and where did the term come from?

                        Labor laws establish how many hours a worker can work, in a given period, before the employer is required to pay overtime. For firefighters this amount is set at 53 hours a week. This does not mean that a firefighter gets overtime pay the instant he or she works over 53 hours in a week. For a 24/48 schedule this would amount to 19 hours of OT every third week because on two weeks the firefighter would work 48 hours but on the third it would be 72. This amount can be an average of hours in a set time period. But even this would an be average of 56 hours a week. Something must be done to avoid paying that 3 hours a week overtime. (Although some departments do just pay it.) Many departments use a four week pay period. As long as the firefighter does not average over 53 hours a week, in that period, the employer is within the law.

                        Confused yet?

                        What usually occurs is that over a four week period about 12 hours of time is accrued. That is then matched with 12 hours of vacation or a holiday for a complete shift off. This amounts to getting about every 9th shift off. But this is not always the case. Some departments may choose a different schedule. In some departments, the union negotiates a contract that includes certain days off. For whatever reason, this is just a predictable time off from your regular shift.

                        Where did the name come from? This is a question I get often.

                        One "legend" is that there once was a worker who always took off (sick?) a particular day. Perhaps this was the Monday after he was paid for the month. Or it could have been based upon some other regular, predictable, event. The legend then goes on to suggest that this person's name WAS "Kelly". From that, the term was applied to a day off taken. "I'm taking a day off like Kelly." became "I am taking a Kelly day." Other legends have the chief who invented it named Kelly. Members of several departments have contacted me and proclaimed that it was in their city that the term was born. One has it named for a chief who "invented" it. Another says it was named for a mayor. I have had one person say that it went back to a specific person, named Kelly, in Ireland. I get more emails about this than just about any other subject.

                        The most insistent group are those who claim that it is named for a Chicago Mayor, Edward Kelly. Mayor Kelly was the son of a Chicago firefighter. The CFD had endured many hardships due to the depression and the bad blood between unions and business. Around 1936 Mayor kelly changed the firefighter's schedule to give them an extra day off. Mayor Kelly was so loved by the fire department for this and other improvements to wages and benefits that he was named an honorary firefighter. To read more about the history of the CFD, I strongly recommend this site. http://www.affi-iaff.org/history2.html

                        Some departments who use Kelly Days:
                        http://www.edmondsfire.org/fire/DeptOverview.htm
                        http://www.tampagov.net/dept_fire/A...n_summaries.asp

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                        • #13
                          Not sure if this applies, but we work straight 24/48 shifts and get paid 8 hours FLSA time. at time and a half. Instead of kelly days we just accumulate time to be taken off at our descression. Not sure if that helps or pertains. Stay safe!

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                          • #14
                            We do 24/48 and have a kelly day every quarter. Our kelly days are 24 hrs OT unless someone specifially wants a 24 hr vacation day, which I believe he can request. We also get FLSA too. Basically, what I make on paper and what I actually make is almost 10k difference
                            The Box. You opened it. We Came...

                            "You'll take my life but I'll take your's too. You'll fire musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack, you'll better understand there's no turn back."

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                            • #15
                              You guys want confusion? Grab a cup o' joe and pull up a chair...

                              Our department works a three-platoon system that almost uses the 24/48 format. To keep us from exceeding 212 hours within 28 days, they work us in fixed 106-hour pay periods.

                              This means that in pay periods where we would exceed the 106 hours, we work a 10-hour shift one tour instead of the full 24. In pay periods where we would fall short of the 106 hours, we have to work a 36-hour shift.

                              Currently, there is talk on the table of moving us to an actual 24/48 shift schedule. However, with only 120 hours of vacation and 72 hours of personal leave time... This would hurt our leave time. As it is, you can plan your vacation days in advance to fall on the short days. So, 120 hours of vacation could be scheduled to be 12 tours of duty off work. If the schedule was fixed at 24 hours, the 120 hours would only buy us five tours off work.
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