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  • 5pts384
    replied
    When teaching my students I try to get them to understand. I teach the book, the state exam is from the book.
    The book is a good foundation that you build on - - - street learning is fine after you know the basics.

    Leave a comment:


  • E229Lt
    replied
    Originally posted by BoxAlarm187
    I am going to use that one soon.

    However, to me, your comment does seem to lean towards the "why the hell did they teach you that at The Rock..." attitude. No?
    NO! Everything we are taught becomes another tool in the box. I have run across many a "rock" graduate who says, "but they said to do it this way" as I/we conduct training. While it is likely the "basic" training received in an academy will work, most areas have a refined means of doing certain tasks.

    Likewise, we as the teachers must be open to ideas brought to us. If the idea seems feasible, it should be explored and tried through training and drills to see if it has merit. At the same time it should not be immediately adopted as operational as it may have flaws or safety concerns.

    So, for the new recruit being told of a way of doing things not taught in the academy, he should embrace it as tried and proven by his officers and senior men. On the other hand, an officer or senior man being told of a new way of doing something, it should be looked at and tested if it makes sense.

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  • MalahatTwo7
    replied
    Not going to critique photos or the comments of said photos, but will try to answer the original question.

    Like many of us who have posted above, I am also an instructor and I concur with a comment made earlier about trying to meld between "text-book" and "street" learning. In the classroom (and I borrowed this from another instructor) I always tell what the book says, make sure they 'get it' and are ready for the exam. However I will always at the beginning and end of the class (and all through it) caution the students that the Book is the exam standard. What their individual units practice is another all together. Where possible I will show "technique" (another bit borrowed from another instructor - or what I call a "Me-ism") on what might happen in the street. And hope that it might give the key to another potential tool in the box line of thinking.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptainGonzo
    replied
    Posted by Dickey
    My biggest disclaimer...." I will show you several ways to skin a cat. You use the way that your department policy says you shall use."
    Another point to remember... on the fireground, there are no "olympic judges" holding up cards grading your performance on your technique of bringing in a line over a ladder.. to paraphase Lary the Cable guy.. "git-r-done and get to work!"

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  • Dickey
    replied
    Originally posted by BoxAlarm187
    A good instructor will be able to use his street knowledge to teach the students within the department/state/local guidelines, and make them better firefighters at the same time.

    Originally posted by Chauffer6

    Again, it's all about balance, as are most things in life.

    BOTH ARE OH SO TRUE!!! I TOTALLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID.

    An instructor myself, I always try to teach a blend of textbook with a splash of experience. You have to have a balance between "book smarts" and "street smarts." In my experience, firefighters learn by doing. You can only learn so much from a textbook without going and practicing what you have learned. Teach by the book but back it up with experience. When they are done and are in the real world, I want them to say to themselves, "...oh yeah, I've done this before."
    Very true, just because we have been doing it one way for 200 years and can't change now just means that maybe you have been doing it wrong for 200 years. Maybe not "wrong" but the new way may be safer or smarter.

    I teach 3 basic fundamentals....

    1. Be safe. No matter what you do, be safe about it. You ARE your brother's keeper.
    2. Work smarter, not harder. Think about it. Action vs. Reaction.
    3. The day you think you know it all is the day you need to retire. It's a constant learning process.

    My biggest disclaimer...." I will show you several ways to skin a cat. You use the way that your department policy says you shall use."

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by MG3610
    If you have decided that you're going to spray water in the windows, its usually just as effective (or ineffective as it usually results to be) to do it from the ground in most cases (in my opinion). You've essentially resorted to defensive tactics at that point. Sure, theres a once in a while possibility of having to do that but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
    I respectfully disagree. While I'm not an advocate of spraying water into windows while standing outside in place of aggressive interior attacks, there ARE instances where it's neither a defensive maneuver nor is it ineffective to do so. At the fire pictured, for example, there were already handlines operating inside. The house was balloon frame construction and the fire had reached the attic space quickly. Had the crew stood on the ground and attempted to shoot water all the way up into the attic, only then would the idea have been futile and ineffective. As it turned out, it was a very smart move because they were able to accurately put just enough water on the fire up there to knock it down and prevent a lot more damage. That, coupled with the interior lines, proved to be an extremely effective operation and most of the house was saved. This is not the first time depts in our area have made good use of a tactic like this, and it's really not all that dissimilar to a blitz-type attack, albeit on a much smaller scale.

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  • neiowa
    replied
    Originally posted by 27Truck
    How many of you out there have gone to fire academy or new recruit school and learned the book way of doing things just to go shift and have the guys/gals tell you not to do it the book way but to do it the street way.


    For example a friend of mine was teaching some new guys on our volly dept how to take a charged hose line up a ladder. He was going on and on word for word from the book how to do this task. I put my 2 cents in and told them the way I learned how to do this is put the hose under one arm and over the oppsite shoulder and use your chest to help push/pull the hose up the ladder this way you can keep both hands on the ladder, and the second guy just puts it over his shoulder and goes up. Nope has to be by the book, when you know if an officer is screaming at you to get up there you will grab the hose and haul *** up the ladder anyway you can.

    Whats your opinion on this?
    Opinion on what. On your sticking your nose in where it had no business being? Some "friend". The guy is TEACHING A CLASS and you're disrupting it with unsolicited "advice". IE: telling him and the newbies he is INSTRUCTING that he's all screwed up/doesn't know diddly. Yeah your a great buddy. He chew you a new one like he should have?

    Leave a comment:


  • MG3610
    replied
    [QUOTE=Chauffer6]Fire in an attic with very limited access both from the floor below and for an aerial device to be put into place. Or, as they say, a picture is worth 1,000 words.QUOTE]

    If you have decided that you're going to spray water in the windows, its usually just as effective (or ineffective as it usually results to be) to do it from the ground in most cases (in my opinion). You've essentially resorted to defensive tactics at that point. Sure, theres a once in a while possibility of having to do that but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • BoxAlarm187
    replied
    Originally posted by E229Lt
    You know what happens when you throw a book at a fire?
    I am going to use that one soon.

    However, to me, your comment does seem to lean towards the "why the hell did they teach you that at The Rock..." attitude. No?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by E229Lt
    You know what happens when you throw a book at a fire?

    Leave a comment:


  • E229Lt
    replied
    You know what happens when you throw a book at a fire?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by MG3610
    On a last note, in 13 years I've never carried a charged hoseline up a ladder (except to clean out my gutters and in the academy), and I honestly dont know if I can think of a situation where I would??
    Fire in an attic with very limited access both from the floor below and for an aerial device to be put into place. Or, as they say, a picture is worth 1,000 words.

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  • MG3610
    replied
    If you live by "textbook" ways, youll die by textbook ways. You need to be able to understand a few simple things in this job...not in any specific order...

    - What is the task
    - How can you do it without getting hurt
    - What is your physical condition/capability
    - What tool(s) will accomplish the task

    Be able to do things a few ways, not just one. You need to be able to stay on your toes and think through some of the hairy situations that come down the line at you.

    On a last note, in 13 years I've never carried a charged hoseline up a ladder (except to clean out my gutters and in the academy), and I honestly dont know if I can think of a situation where I would??

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave1983
    replied
    Originally posted by 27Truck
    Thanks for the feedback. My other question has anyone else been taught the same method that I discribed above take the charged line under one arm and over the opposite shoulder letting the nozzle hang behind you and using your body or chest to help pull the hose up the ladder?
    Thats how I do it...

    Leave a comment:


  • mtnfireguy
    replied
    There has always been a disconnect between the Academy way and the Street way, especially in EMS. But, good instructors have the talent to bring the gap closer together.

    There is a USFA Technical Report that even mentions this issue. The following is a excerpt from that report.

    Attitude and The “Training Academy Way”—One of the cornerstones of fire service training is to impart the correct attitude towards firefighting from instructor to student. Failure to pass on the appropriate attitudes and force unit discipline in fire training can have a lasting effect on students. One problem consistently voiced by experienced fire service personnel is the attitude that there is a “training academy
    way” of doing things, and the “real” way of doing things (outside of training). The “training academy way” should be synonymous with the “right way.”


    The full report can be found at:

    http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pd...tr-100-508.pdf

    Leave a comment:

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