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Boston Has Seaman, Not Fireman, at Helm

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  • Boston Has Seaman, Not Fireman, at Helm

    Boston Has Seaman, Not Fireman, at Helm
    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=46&id=50959
    "Fraser has no experience in municipal fire departments,"
    Now this is a slap in the face. Why not appoint the CEO of Coca Cola to the job, he doesn't have firefighting experience but Coke is number 1 in their market. I'm sure he would do just fine, and the extra caffeine might improve the productivity of the guys.
    Any insite on this, what the city is saying is that out of the thousands of emplyees on the FD not one is good enough.

  • #2
    that doesnt make any sense--

    how will he ever handle a budget if he doesnt know anything about wat is needed, much less what should be bought. in the navy, the captains dont really work the budget. i wonder which way hell shift the trucks to, the last guy was pierce, then it was e-one. and thats only a little problem. he has no knowledge. how can a navy guy implement an fd to prevent a terroist attack?

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    • #3
      To answer the question what he knows about firefighting..."At one point in his career, he was director for several firefighting training courses at a Navy school in Newport, R.I." Now I'm not a Navy man, but I've known many, and from my understanding naval firefighting is a different world (as in tougher, due to the fact you're in a closed in oven, basically). Aside from that, this is a military man taking the helm of a quasi-military organization.

      I'm sure if the Navy gave the guy command of a ship, he can figure out how to work the the FD staff to find out what they need. At least give the guy a chance, if he screws up, flame him then.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by skipatrol8
        how will he ever handle a budget if he doesnt know anything about wat is needed, much less what should be bought. in the navy, the captains dont really work the budget. i wonder which way hell shift the trucks to, the last guy was pierce, then it was e-one. and thats only a little problem. he has no knowledge. how can a navy guy implement an fd to prevent a terroist attack?
        Any officer that has commanded a unit has worked budgets, extensively. And resources, and equipment, and lead men (and girls). The US Navy developed much of modern firefighting.

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        • #5
          Fire chief

          Depends what the chief of a large organisation does and that should be managing things.
          As long as he delegates the operational running of fires to those that know then it should not be a problem.
          Most of us gave up fighting fires along time ago and now are incident managers anyway.
          Disclaimer
          These views are my own and not of either my brigade or any other organisation.

          Comment


          • #6
            Not going to comment on the article itself, however in answer to Catch 22 comment regarding shipboard firefighting. Yes, it is very different for the simple answer of "oven". I have 5 years in warships and drilling for shipboard fires is always interesting to say the least. Attacking the fire includes not only the fire room, and contents, but ALL adjacent compartments, above, below and to the sides. Plus anything that might travel through the ventilation trunking before damage control has time to shut all the dampers. Never had to fight a real onboard fire, but have a few friends who have, and according to them, "It ain't no fun".
            If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

            "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

            "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

            Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

            impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

            IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by neiowa
              Any officer that has commanded a unit has worked budgets, extensively. And resources, and equipment, and lead men (and girls). The US Navy developed much of modern firefighting.
              Yup, and shipboard firefighting (ala US Coast Guard) also gave us Lloyd Layman who's teachings of compartment fires were sound, but many buildings were burned down due to improper techniques or misunderstandings of the tactic. I think the fire service is finally recovering from that misadventure.

              I'm not really too concerned about his previous military firefighting experience because it would more than likely be nothing like what it is the brothers in Boston go through. His real strength if any would be his command and budgetary experience. The biggest hurdle for him though would be that he is dealing with a unionized work force rather than a seaman that would say "aye aye, sir" to his every order. I do wish him luck though.
              I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

              One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
              "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
              -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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              • #8
                Quote of the week brought to you by Boston FF Union

                "If Mr. Fraser chooses to partner with us in this endeavor, he will be a great fire commissioner for the city of Boston," Edward A. Kelly, president of the union, said in a statement. "If he chooses to hinder us, we will sink his battleship."

                Tom

                Never Forget 9-11-2001

                Stay safe out there!

                IACOJ Member

                Comment


                • #9
                  "If Mr. Fraser chooses to partner with us in this endeavor, he will be a great fire commissioner for the city of Boston," Edward A. Kelly, president of the union, said in a statement. "If he chooses to hinder us, we will sink his battleship."
                  So I read this to say "Do what we want or else."


                  Remember, this guy is a civilian department head. He is a paper pusher. He'll have a career firefighter actually running the department day to day. Being a paper pusher, one does not exactly need to have a lot of experience running incidents or whatever. He will probably be leaving that up to the people that know what they are doing. Like a good leader, and like a commander of a ship would do.


                  Boston used to do this until about the mid-80s when Leo Stapleton was made the Fire Commisioner by then Mayor Ray Flynn.

                  Until now, it has been a one person position. Now it will be two. We'll see how it works.
                  "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                  The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                  "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                  "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                  www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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                  • #10
                    Hey, settle down, FDNY got a non-firefighter commissioner, and look at how well it's worked out for them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hope this guy learns the terminology of the fire service before he tries commanding his multiple alarm fire - I can just imagine what this guy will expect if the deputy suggests using "heavy caliber guns" to knock down the fire..."yeah, er,uh, good idea Deputy, glad I thought of that....C-1 to all companies operating, launch the Tomahawks!!!!"

                      Since this guy's experience is in naval firefighting operations, does this mean that we can expect to see Boston switching over/back to high pressure fog for their initial attack lines???!!!

                      Just my 2 cents...Stay Safe...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        He is the Commissioner, not the Chief. Should we not have a Secretary of Transportation who has not been a bus driver or ship captain? It is an admin/management position, he has shown great skill in that area. I applaud the city for thinking outside the box on this appointment.
                        Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
                        -Big Russ

                        Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

                        Originally posted by nyckftbl
                        LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ROFLMAO...

                          1) It doesn't really matter what his FF'ing experience is. The Commissioner role, at least traditionally, was to be the political appointee at the head...mainly for pushing through budgets and the like with the City Council and making nice with other departments...

                          2) A 42 year old, non-native, in a senior position in one of the most intensely political cities in the nation. BA WA HAHAHAHHAHA...why don't they just give him a bunker coat with Yankees logo painted on the back? The guy is going to be treated like hamburger thrown into a pack of hungry pit bulls.

                          How I interpret it from a bit of a distance? Menino needed a sacrificial lamb to say, "See, I brought in outside leadership!" and there is something much more going on in the background politics. What that is; whether Menino is actually going to war with the union and needed a bullet catcher put up in front of him...or if Menino has made peace in the back-channels and needed someone to deflect heat from not actually implementing reforms...I don't know.

                          But I know enough of Massachusetts and Boston politics to know this ain't some alltruistic appointment.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I always wanted to be a seamen.
                            J
                            It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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                            • #15
                              You were at one point in your life cycle

                              Disclaimer: No disrespect intended against any NAVY personnel. Thanks for protecting us!
                              Last edited by NYSmokey; 08-31-2006, 02:40 PM.
                              Tom

                              Never Forget 9-11-2001

                              Stay safe out there!

                              IACOJ Member

                              Comment

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