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  • E-One problems

    Hi all. We run all E-ones. We seem to have a tremendous amount of problems with them. Our Admin. is starting to audit this at our request to see if it is an E-one thing or if we should expect this with any manufacturer. As for our Dept., we run 7 stations, 8 companies. 7000+ calls a year. Here's a run down of some of the things we've experienced:

    New quint: Turbo shelled. Got that fixed, drive shaft fell out and knocked a hole in the transmission. All within a few weeks of being in service.

    New engine: Multiple electrical issues. Transmission switches to neutral while driving for no reason. Have to shut off and restart to get going again. AC problems. All within a few weeks of going in service.

    1998 Quint: Multiple problems over the years. Caught on fire in the station the other day.

    1996 quint: Has had 5 transmissions. Currently occasionally won't go in gear and have to restart to go

    2002 engine: Had pump fail on a couple different fires due to electrical problems. Multiple other electrical issues.

    1999 quint: Electrical short in the dash driving down the road a few years back filled with smoke.

    On all our rigs: Multiple electrical problems, AC problems, frequent break downs. Various broken springs.

    Several of our rigs short when it rains, sirens turn on by themselves, etc.

    We have an E-one dealer and service center in our City, which has led to the switch to these. Just curious what other Dept.'s experience with these and if it's just E-one. We sure seem to have a ton of problems. Thanks.
    Last edited by fyrmnk; 08-17-2006, 11:02 PM.
    FTM-PTB-RFB
    IACOJ

  • #2
    Bro- Sorry to hear about your "E-Wonderfuls". Them having problems seems to be typical and date way back to the 80s.

    Did you get the extended warranty?
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 08-18-2006, 01:21 AM.

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    • #3
      Cal- I don't know about the warranty. Either way, it sure makes it hard to have confidence in your equipment when this stuff keeps happening.

      Maybe asking for new $1/2 million+ fire trucks to work is just being picky?
      FTM-PTB-RFB
      IACOJ

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      • #4
        This would probably get much better response over in the Apparatus Innovation froum. Here are just a few threads that have been started about this topic.

        http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=82057

        http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...ighlight=e-one

        http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...ighlight=e-one

        http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...ighlight=e-one

        http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=82770
        Last edited by toddmcbr; 08-18-2006, 09:21 AM. Reason: spelling

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        • #5
          Sounds like you local dealer/service shop is not doing their job. Ours have been running without issue since 1990.
          "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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          • #6
            A lot of the problems are caused by mistakes at the factory. The drive shaft was supposed to have a safety cable around it to catch it if it falls out; It wasn't there. (They know they've had issues with the driveshafts falling out due to bolts loosening so they put the catch cable on it according to our dealer, how crazy is that?)

            The last blown turbo was due to a clamp not being tied down at the company and parts being drawn into it.

            Thanks for the other links. Didn't notice the Apparatus Innovtion section.

            Bones, just curious how many E-ones your dept. runs and miles used? Again, just trying to see if we're just "lucky" or what. Thanks.
            FTM-PTB-RFB
            IACOJ

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            • #7
              2. 1990 Teleboom, 1995 Engine. The 90 runs about 200 calls per year, the 95 runs about 150. Not the volume you have I'm sure. But I have to be honest, I know of a company near me that is having way more issues with there manufacturer and local dealer than we have ever had. I won't mention there name cuz I may get another hand written note from them.

              (They know they've had issues with the driveshafts falling out due to bolts loosening so they put the catch cable on it according to our dealer, how crazy is that?)
              IMO, that is the most BS statement I ever heard from a dealer. Does anyone actually believe that?

              I know of many other departments in NJ that are very satisfied with their E-Ones and the local dealership.
              "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by fyrmnk
                We run all E-ones. We seem to have a tremendous amount of problems with them.
                No way.....You wouldnt pull our legs, would you?
                "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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                • #9
                  [QUOTE=Bones42] IMO, that is the most BS statement I ever heard from a dealer. Does anyone actually believe that? [QUOTE]

                  Don't know, but the final thing we were waiting on after the new transmission was the cable to be shipped from E-one and installed by the dealer.

                  We have roughly 15 E-ones, from 1989 to present. Only 7 are front line rigs, the rest reserves. There have been times when we are out of reserves/call back rigs with all our front line rigs down.

                  Again, we may just have the "luck" with them, but that's what I'm trying to find out.
                  Last edited by fyrmnk; 08-18-2006, 05:54 PM.
                  FTM-PTB-RFB
                  IACOJ

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Orange County Fire Authority (in Southern Calif.) has a large type 1 engine order coming from E-One. Before that is was KME, before that is was Pierce. Before that is was Seagrave.

                    Why are they going through so many different truck makers? Two words- Low bid. I figured it was just a matter of time for E-One would sneak in there.

                    Sorry about your woes, I am not trying to be a wise ***. I just sit back and look at E-One's history and wonder why they are still in business....low bid.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CALFFBOU
                      The Orange County Fire Authority (in Southern Calif.) has a large type 1 engine order coming from E-One. Before that is was KME, before that is was Pierce. Before that is was Seagrave.

                      Why are they going through so many different truck makers? Two words- Low bid. I figured it was just a matter of time for E-One would sneak in there.

                      Sorry about your woes, I am not trying to be a wise ***. I just sit back and look at E-One's history and wonder why they are still in business....low bid.
                      Low bid definitely has a big part in it. Also for us, being the "hometown" dealer has an influence. We've expressed the issues for many years on line. We're now being heard and the issue looked at, for what it's worth. Thanks again for all the feedback. I copied this post over in "Apparatus" also.
                      FTM-PTB-RFB
                      IACOJ

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We have two - pumper and heavy rescue both from 1995. Our heavy rescue has leaned to one side since day one and they have never taken care of it. We' just grown good at tilting our heads. :-) The pumper was out of service as a bearing came loose on the cam shaft and tore a bunch of stuff up. This was a big p*ss*ng match with Detroit Diesel and International as the Series 40 we have is made by combining the top with the bottom of the other.

                        We have just recently had a funny electrical issue with our pumper after it was taken out in a rainy day. Our repair tech. said it was a bad connection and seems to be fine now.

                        Overall, I have to say we have been satisfied with them except for the service. Factory service sucks!!

                        Granted we run about 150 - 200 calls with each truck a year so it's hard to compare.

                        I would say every brand has their issues. Why are their Fords, Chevy's and Dodges? Each one of them has their quirks also. I think the same is true with apparatus.

                        Good Luck.

                        DPH

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                        • #13
                          our aerial hasnt had that many problems.... 95 foot platform.
                          JTFD1
                          http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4778/firesig4fh.jpg

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                          • #14
                            I'm glad this post was brought up, we are currently spec'ing out our new Midmount Tower ladder and have it narrowed down between pierce and eone for the bids. I like alot of the options on the E-one especially when it comes to the weight on the boom itself, compartment space and other nice little options, especially the outriggers but with all these problems everyone is bringing up that they are having with their apparatus I'm going to bring it up to the rest of the comittee to really look closely and find out some more information. The neighboring town just purchased an E-one Midmount and it has had a few kinks here and there but what new truck doesnt. so far they love it, another department little farther than where I'm from purchased quite a few E-ones and they think they are POS. So far the pierce is looking better and better.
                            Andrew
                            Firefighter/EMT
                            New Jersey

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think that you have to look at multiple factors.

                              Someone mentioned a couple years ago in a similar thread that when these problems pop up, they are in a very small area of specialty. By this I mean that there are only a few thousand rigs built for a national pool. Thus issues tend to be higher and more costly.....Albeit that this is unacceptable given the line of work and price tag that these unit entail.

                              Secondly, and I think that this has a lot to do with it, many of these apparatus manufacturers are owned by some very large corporations and we all know that it simply comes down to the Benjamins. Get them built as quickly and inexpensively as possible. Hence we have units such as these. All of the small and true "custom" manufacturers are gone, bought up by major corporations, or absorbed into larger manufacturers. And the quality has gone downhill with it. Pierce is owned by OshKosh truck, E-One by Federal Signal, American Lafrance was owned by Freightliner who was in-turn owned by Daimler-Chrysler - yet it is owned by someone else now. Point being that the old specialty units that were made by Saulsbury with high precision, detail, functionality, and (more importantly) with an emphasis on customer satisfaction and use are all gone. And this is what we are left with.

                              Correct me if I am wrong, but Sutphen is the only real small apparatus manufacturer left in the US is it not?

                              Thirdly, low bid is definitely an issue here. If you can built it for less, and you know that by law the department / community will be forced (again, by law) to purchase your crappy product, then explain to me where the emphasis is for a company to improve, charge more for a quality product (and thereby lose business), and improve their operations?



                              Oh for the glory days of quality apparatus: Crown, Mack CF, Maxim.......When they made trucks that would outlast, outdrive, outpump, and out almost anything that is produced nowadays.
                              "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

                              The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

                              "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

                              "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

                              www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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