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Here We Go Again !

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  • Here We Go Again !


    yes this is a full time IAFF department and they did have 4 firefighters working 2 on the Rescue and 2 on the engine and the rescue was on a medical.......... THATS SAFE ! There FIRE Millage just failed on Tuesday also

    A Second Alarm was called Mutual Aide from 2 Depts

  • #2
    wow, that click on Detroit site sucks! That was a whole two sentence article.

    On a side note, they are not the only department that runs 4 guys a shift and leaves the house with 2 guys on each piece. I will say this, they should have made SOME attempt at attacking the fire.

    I would like to read more on this. I doubt they just stood there, but if they did that is wrong. As I said some attack could have been made, a simple defensive attack with a handline would have atleast shown an effort to extinguish the fire.
    Local 216


    • #3
      Originally posted by wilson10
      wow, that click on Detroit site sucks! That was a whole two sentence article.

      On a side note, they are not the only department that runs 4 guys a shift and leaves the house with 2 guys on each piece. I will say this, they should have made SOME attempt at attacking the fire.

      I would like to read more on this. I doubt they just stood there, but if they did that is wrong. As I said some attack could have been made, a simple defensive attack with a handline would have atleast shown an effort to extinguish the fire.
      Yeah....what he said

      Never Forget 9-11-2001

      Stay safe out there!

      IACOJ Member


      • #4
        yup, they do suck thats for sure, the weekend web crew is teribble..... hopefully monday they will update it and i will pass it on......
        Last edited by MaddogDFD5; 08-13-2006, 11:08 AM.


        • #5
          Why is the police chief commenting on Fd matters??
          Proud East Coast Traditionalist.


          • #6
            good question.........


            • #7
              Originally posted by wilson10
              wow, that click on Detroit site sucks! That was a whole two sentence article.
              no kidding
              These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.


              • #8
                Yeah, That Too...............

                Why didn't they do something??
                2 in 2 out?? Probably.

                Why did the Police Chief comment?? Here's Letterman's Ten Reasons.

                10. He runs around looking for reporters.

                9. He was standing out in the street, away from that smelly smoke.

                8. No one else in the PD was there.

                7. His Badge was shinier.

                6. He carries a gun

                5. Patrol Officer dragged the reporter to the Chief.

                4. The Mayor told him to.

                3. His Dog told him to.

                2. It's in his Job Description.

                Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                In memory of
                Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                IACOJ Budget Analyst

                I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.



                • #9
                  Originally posted by nyckftbl
                  Why is the police chief commenting on Fd matters??
                  They could be a "public safety" department, with the Police Chief in charge of both.
                  ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                  Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY


                  • #10
                    I dont like not having the full story! Was mutual aid on the way? I would assume more manpower was coming - so were the initial ff's pulling up a chunk of curb waiting.... hope not - I can understand stretching line and getting set up for more personal, but to stand by and watch cmon - has to be more to it!
                    -I have learned people will forget what you said,
                    -People will forget what you did,
                    -But people will never forget how you made them feel!


                    • #11
                      I don't think that Harper Woods is a PSO. Since i wasn't there i will add this. Perhaps the homeowner told the officer of a hazard inside that the guy said it wasn't worth him risking his crews life. ( large propane storage, ammunition making in the basement, meth lab, the list goes on and on.) Also in MI MIOSHA follows 1500 like none other. If an LODD occurs and you knew their was nobody in it your but is in the sling. maybe a cop said on the radio that it was empty. Maybe.
                      It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.


                      • #12
                        NO PSO's IAFF Local 1188 Harper Woods, MI..... and on the police chief i have no idea...... i know the city is have some major "budget issues" tho..... and MCFD your are right about MIOSHA....... Yes Mutual Aid was called shortly after arrival, Mutual Aid was Second Alarm called M/A from Eastpointe FD and Grosse Pointe Public Safety......
                        Last edited by MaddogDFD5; 08-15-2006, 01:40 AM.


                        • #13
                          An older article, but it explains a lot of the attitudes. Highland Park went back to a regular FD after they contracted to the Sheriff for police, and Detroit refused to continue putting out all their fires. Mt Clemens keeps getting held up as the example of how to outsource and save money, but the county sheriff took a bath on the contract and now the county has a deficit.

                          LESS MONEY, MORE CREATIVE CUTS: Cities' budget alarms sound
                          Harper Woods may follow others by merging police and fire services
                          BY SHABINA S. KHATRI
                          FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

                          April 17, 2006

                          About 15 years ago, Linda Ferguson was among the voters who rejected a proposal to combine the Harper Woods police and fire departments.

                          But money woes there -- like those in many other communities in metro Detroit -- are leading city officials to put the issue back on the table as they begin looking at their budget. And residents like Ferguson are concerned.

                          "If they had two or three different calls at the same time -- a fire one place, a wreck another, a crime somewhere else -- how would they cover it all?" Ferguson, 54, asked.

                          After some $20 billion in revenue sharing cuts over the last six years, elected officials across the state say they have no choice but to trim back the once untouchable budgets of police and fire departments.

                          And increasingly, they are trying to do it by either training emergency workers to handle both police and fire emergencies or partnering with neighboring communities to share resources.

                          More than half the cities and nearly all the townships in southeast Michigan already participate in some sort of police and fire service collaboration, according to the Citizens Research Council, a nonprofit group that conducts research on state and local governments.

                          But recent attempts to add to that number have been met by residents worried that they'll be left with emergency workers who are either unfamiliar with their communities or spread too thin.

                          Police and fire unions also have gone to court, trying to block the changes. But despite nagging worries, the changes have typically gone smoothly, with anecdotal evidence showing there's no real effect on safety when communities pare back their police and fire budgets the right way.

                          Municipalities with such collaborations are getting the services they have come to expect, said Eric Lupher, director of local affairs for the Citizens Research Council.

                          Harper Woods hopes that by combining police and fire protection in a single department, it will save money because fewer officers will be needed to perform the necessary jobs.

                          But more often, communities team up to share their existing departments. Allen Park and Melvindale took a step toward that last month by tweaking a mutual aid agreement so firefighters in each city now must automatically respond to emergencies in the other.

                          "We don't know if there are going to be immediate cost savings or more long-term cost savings," Naheed Huq, manager of community and economic development for the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments (SEMCOG), said of collaborating cities.

                          The Downriver pact led to firefighters in both cities cooperating in a different way -- by filing a lawsuit earlier this month in Wayne County Circuit Court to block the change.

                          The unions argued that the change would make the departments vulnerable to budget cuts and compromise response times by dragging firefighters to the other city when they are not needed.

                          Mt. Clemens went further last spring, shutting down its police department and contracting with the Macomb County Sheriff's Office to provide all police services. That move also was met with a lawsuit by officers who stood to lose their jobs.

                          But the change went ahead and the city trimmed about $1.4 million from its budget.

                          "I think they're a lot better than they were previously," said resident Charles Bell, 64. On a recent afternoon, Bell, who lives on the south side of Mt. Clemens, said he saw a patrol car parked down the street -- police presence he hasn't felt in a long time.

                          Some communities have struggled to find the right mix. Highland Park used to have a single public safety department, but a deficit forced the city to break up the department this year and contract with the Wayne County Sheriff's Office for police services.

                          "We need our own fire department and our own police department," said resident James Banks. The 57-year-old lives on Geneva, near where a blaze last year destroyed four homes before firefighters could find working hydrants.

                          Crime and fires are less common in Harper Woods than Highland Park, but Harper Woods City Manager Jim Leidlein said the issue will be a top priority in coming months.

                          Harper Woods has a $500,000 deficit, and Leidlein estimates that the combined department would save a little more than that annually. But the idea has raised the ire of firefighters who said they were not happy about being put in that kind of danger.

                          "It takes a special person to be a police officer and a special person to be a firefighter," said Paul Weiss, a fire captain in Harper Woods. "Are you going to get the same dedication from a police officer to go into a burning building where you can't see six inches in front of your face?"

                          Well, yes -- according to Michael Makowski, director of the Grosse Pointe Woods Department of Public Safety.

                          "My guys are doing it, and they've been doing it since 1944," Makowski said. "If you hire good caliber people, they rise to the occasion."
                          Contact SHABINA S. KHATRI at 586-469-8087 or [email protected].


                          • #14

                            Cause of house fire under investigation

                            EAST LIVERPOOL — The cause of a fire that destroyed a vacant house on Shadyside Avenue early Sunday is not yet known, but a lack of manpower and “poor” hydrants in the area complicated firefighters’ efforts.

                            The one-story frame house at 981 Shadyside is owned by Melissa Crow, 323 Gaddes St., and up until a few days prior to the fire had been occupied by Christina Rudder and John Fortnier, according to fire officials.

                            The fire originated at the front of the structure, then extended to the interior, with the entire house involved when firefighters arrived on the scene.

                            With only two men on duty Saturday night, a second and third alarm were sounded within minutes of the initial call.

                            Finally, a “general alarm” went out, pleading for manpower from any shift to come and assist, resulting in a total of six firefighters battling the blaze.

                            One fireman said Sunday witnesses noted they had seen the fire awhile before an alarm was raised.

                            The report also noted firefighters used hydrants that were in “poor” condition at the scene. They had the blaze under control by 2:24 a.m. and returned to the station at 4:44 a.m.

                            Lt. Jeffrey Kreefer was the officer in charge of the fire and had not determined a cause as of Sunday. Reports noted the structure was not insured.


                            Fire consumes vacant Shadyside Avenue structure

                            By MICHAEL D. McELWAIN ([email protected])

                            A vacant home at 981 Shadyside was termed a complete loss. (Photo by Larry Claypool)
                            EAST LIVERPOOL — A vacant home along Shadyside Avenue was destroyed by fire early Sunday morning.

                            The home, owned by Melissa Crow of Gaddes Street, East Liverpool, was being heavily consumed by the blaze when East Liverpool Fire Department officials arrived, according to firefighter Chris Harrison.

                            “It was fully involved when we got there. We ended up setting off a third alarm,” Harrison said.

                            There were two men on duty when the call first arrived at 12:11 a.m., Sunday. Records show those firefighters arrived at the scene only three minutes later.

                            The second and third alarm resulted in seven firefighters responding at the 981 Shadyside Ave. location as two other firefighters remained at the station.

                            Harrison said initial reports suggest Crow was using the one-story, wood-framed house as a rental unit. “People just moved out of it three days prior to the fire,” Harrison said.

                            East Liverpool firemen were able to protect another home up the hillside from the scene of the blaze, located approximately 50 yards from the vacant home. That nearby home did not sustain damages.

                            Harrison said the fire resulted in the total loss of the structure which was not insured.

                            Firefighters returned to the scene three additional times, according to Harrison, which is not an unusual circumstance.

                            “When a wooden home like this collapses in a basement, it tends to flare back up. We put 1,500 gallons (of water) on it today,” Harrison said Sunday evening.

                            Section: News Posted: 8/21/2006
                            Training does not make perfect. Training makes permanent!

                            IACOJ probie


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by fireguy919
                              resulting in a total of six firefighters battling the blaze.
                              wow. thats not good .....heck we got 8 guys on a call last night for our rescue to assist the ambulance in a call at the nursing home
                              First in, Last out, nobody left behind.....


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