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Improving ISO manning Rural Vol FD

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Bones42
    No offense neiowa, but if what you described is considered staffing by ISO (which it probably will) it's just more proof that their system is flawed.
    Nonsense. A guy working 200ft from the truck can be on it as quickly as a guy sleeping upstairs in his skivies. Make sense to me.

    Ok got it you don't like ISO. Its the only eval/inspection system that exists. Making it work is the responsible option.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by neiowa
      No. The BEST way to get credit for staffing .... is to have staffing. Next may be mutual aide. When they eventually arrive.


      From ISO regarding the major point of where a dayroom/bunkroom etc can be located to be to receive station manning credit. maximum credit can be given up to 200 feet from where the Apparatus is housed.

      So I've been measuring 200ft from the station. We have a local small mfg across the street from the fire station (150ft) where two of our FF work, one guy is in their shop 250days a year & one 100+ days a year 8-10hr/day ea. Local used car dealer/repair shop next door West of the station, mechanic is one of our FF and in the shop 5.5days/wk. Another of our FF owns/lives in the house 25ft East of the station. We have two more guys whos homes are just outside of the 200ft radius. So we now have some 6500hr of day time station manning and 3500hr of night time station manning that we did not have and we haven't done anything different that what we were doing (ISO or real world) other than getting some paperwork squared away.


      The city also owns a vacant building across the street from the station (110ft) that could be converted to an apartment or bunkhouse, dayroom, bunkhouse etc etc etc. Warm bodies still give you at least credit, and then add some FF1 training.
      Not sure that they will give you 100% for those personel. We have a very similar situation and we didnt get the credit. I beleive the ISO rep will maybe give you 1/2 credit if that. We were told if the firefighters were not in the station doing station duty's we couldnt get credit. I also beleive you have to be certified FF! and FF2 for full credit. (I am not a ISO expert but, I do understand most of it.)

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      • #33
        [QUOTE=neiowa]No. The BEST way to get credit for staffing .... is to have staffing. Next may be mutual aide. When they eventually arrive.

        I would have to disagree with you on this one.... I am sure that we have very differant situations. I will have automatic aid tankers with manpower within 7 minutes of dispatch alarm.

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        • #34
          They don't have to be certified since there are varying levels of training, but I think everyone should be just because it's the right thing to do. Documented training and being in the station (or within 200' as bunk-ins) during a set period of documented hours is what they count. Most of ISO is documentation, and then being able to prove the effectiveness of the department compared to that documentation. Like most things we have it's an open book, it just takes a lot of organization and work to make it work in your favor instead of against.
          Brian P. Vickers
          www.vickersconsultingservices.com
          Emergency Services Consulting
          Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
          Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

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          • #35
            Originally posted by kprsn1
            RFDACM, let me see if I understand this. Let's say a department makes 50-60 calls a year and approx. 15 or so are for automatic aid outside their district to either the scene or a station move then ISO will penalize them for being out of service? Does time factor into this at all? What if it is a cover move only so the vehicle is still in service and is able to respond back to the district if needed? Just concerned since a neighboring department might fall into that category due to their low number of total calls vs. how many times they go on auto aid and I wouldn't want to see their ratings get affected if there was some safe way to avoid it.
            I'll have to find the book in my office on Monday, but basically it says jst that. If your apparatus does more than 25% of its runs outside your municipality then you could lose full credit for that truck. And if its a cover assignment only I don't think it would count toward any credit, but maybe it wouldn't come up during the audit. They really only care about first alarm assignments to the scene.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by neiowa
              Nonsense. A guy working 200ft from the truck can be on it as quickly as a guy sleeping upstairs in his skivies. Make sense to me.
              No, there is a big difference. The guy sleeping upstairs may not be stuck in the middle of a deadline job, the guy sleeping upstairs may not be out doing a road test. You may well have a unique situation where that guy is guaranteed to be able respond from across the street regardless of what he is actually working on and that is a great thing for your department. But being as it's so unique, I just don't think it should count as staffing.
              "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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              • #37
                I requested ISO clarify the 200ft issue. Does not matter what the FF (or FD member) is doing as long as they are on duty and within 200ft of the station. Text follows.

                I can't argue with the thought that having 30 FF who are FF2/EMT but it's not going to happen here. We're now pretty good on FF1, down to few First Responders. Need to schedule FF2. But a new guy is going to get basic instruction on his 1st drill, enough to make him usefull and we expect him to jump right in. He's not going to be driving for a while, or operating the pump but if he's 1st at the station (within 200ft) he should have the doors open, trucks started, getting his gear on and he's out with the pumper/wildland. 2nd FF will be there before he's done with those duties anyhow. Our rural dept has no extra bodies for strap hangers/spectators. He's within 200ft he's on duty. If he's 75 and can open the doors/start the trucks (and man the base station) I think I'd count him for station manning purposes if he is within the 200ft radius.

                I've been asked to req some specific clarification on this.

                Volunteer dept.
                1.) "Sam's" residence is 30ft from the apparatus bay. "Harold's"
                residence is 185ft. Both live at home. Sam works out of the fire
                district, home at night/weekend. Harold is local minister with home office so at home avg 20hr/day. We record/log their home hours as on duty station time.
                2.) "Joe" is an office worker at business across the street 140ft from
                the apparatus bay. We log his office hours as on duty station time.
                Employer allows him to go to any and all pages and we have documentation to that effect from employer.
                3.) "Fred" is a mechanic working at an auto repair shop 120ft the
                apparatus bay. We log his work hours as on duty station time. Employer allows him to go to any and all pages and we have documentation to that effect from employer.

                Anything I'm missing or misinterpreting in these 3 situations?


                From ISO

                If the Firefighters are assigned a time to be at the Station, and they
                are at the station or the place within 200 feet of the station at the
                assigned time it does not matter where they live. As long as they come
                in and stay at the station at their assigned time or at a place that is
                at least within 200 feet they should be counted as on duty Firefighters.

                Derrick A. Thomas
                Community Mitigation Analyst
                Insurance Services Office, Inc
                111 N Canal St. suite 950
                Chicago IL, 60606-7270
                (800) 930-1677 x 6209 Fax (312) 930-0038
                Last edited by neiowa; 08-28-2006, 06:25 PM.

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                • #38
                  Same Here

                  [QUOTE=RES81CUE]I used the ISO Slayer Playbook when preparing for our ISO audit... All I can say it deffiently paid off!!

                  The best way to get credit for staffing is automatic aid... And if at all possible an automatic aid agreement with a paid department....

                  We also have the book. Plus by adding two engines (1250gpm/1200gal), two tankers (500gpm/2000gal), and two squads (service points) we are looking at getting a 3/4 in are area. We dont have auto-aid but are working on it. If all gos well are first alarm page out should look like this.

                  -3 engines with 6-9ff, pumping 3750gpm and 3400gal of water
                  -3 tankers with 6ff, pumping 2500gpm and 6000gal of water
                  -2 squads with 6ff (rescue/service)
                  -ladder company with 3ff from PBFD OR PBAFD (100FT PLATFORM)
                  21ff's and 6250 gpm with 9400 gal's of water

                  this is not bad for a rural dept.

                  www.pineblufffire.com

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