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Senator Conrad Burns apology to FF's

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  • #31
    Nope, looks like the systems broke.
    Last edited by SamsonFCDES; 08-10-2006, 05:14 PM.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

    Comment


    • #32
      Well, here is the verdict for MT...no way to do FEPP or the like at this time. This is the answer from the top of the food chain. Maybe someday soon..I hope. I really like the look of NOIWAs brush truck!
      Last edited by SamsonFCDES; 08-10-2006, 05:13 PM.
      -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
      -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

      -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

      -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

      Comment


      • #33
        Which still makes me wonder if its possible to cross state lines and use FEPP through another state...Iowa or Cali!!??!!?!?
        -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
        -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

        -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

        -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

        Comment


        • #34
          Sampson

          I know you're aware of the way FEPP works (surplus is available, state forester requests, GSA allocates to one of the requesting state foresters, ownership transfered to US Forester (who "owns" the FEPP program), who loans to the state forester, who loans it to the local FD.

          http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/partners/fepp/

          According to the US Forestery website the Mt FEPP contact is

          Duane Erickson
          Montana DNCR
          Division of Forestry
          2705 Spurgin Road
          Missoula, MT 59804-3199
          (406) 542-4273
          Fax: (406) 542-4208
          [email protected]

          The DOD DRMS (mil surplus system) is going thru some major changes (closing 2/3 of their warehouse/yards) that have somewhat interupted the supply of equipment and made a major PITB to inspect/transport (longer distances). However one of the 18 remaining (or new sites) is at Great Falls, MT. There are three other sites in your "area' Colorado Springs, Co; Minot, ND; and Tacoma, WA. There is no change in the FEPP process where your forester requests (freezes) online DOD or GSA surplus equipment. If allocated to him away you go. Now my understanding is Mt has a shop set up to inspect/maintain/modify/paint DOD vehicles and then they issue (loan) to FD. That may be good or perhaps bad. Depending on if the charge you for the work they do (I think so) and if they will ALLOW you to obtain vehicles outside of their shop system (I don't know).

          Frankly the email you pasted in doesn't make a lick of sense. I think they are telling you you can't get a 5t truck for wildland use (as an engine) unless you get it thru them with mods. I'd call BS on that and contact my elected reps.

          There is a new program (not widely known about) thru US forester called the "Firefighter Program" (FFP) where FD will be able to get equipment and an earlier/higher issue priority (equal to what the cops have long had with their LESO program). Recipient will also receive title to the equipment. Seperate discussion perhaps but I'm not convienced that the title transfer piece is a good idea (apparently a bunch of cops stand to be going to the bid house over longtime use of LESO to fund the donut/scholarship funds). The Fire Service does NOT need to be going down that road. In any case this new program is only operational in a few states. This may be what your contact is refering to. However and "purchase" price is something your forester is pulling out of their butt. There is no requirement by the US Forester of DOD that the equipment go thru any particualar maint facility before issue to you. Maybe a good idea but not typically the case across the nation. In Iowa (as in most states) is issued to FD as recieved from the Feds/DOD.

          I'm sure you know you can (as has been the case for many many years) obtain surplus equipment thru your state surplus office (for cash). You get title and the $ go (typically to cover transportation of the equipment to Mt and to maintain the lifestyle to which the employees of the state surplus office have become accustomed.

          What do you need right now? I'll send you a info on a couple of likley vehicles that could be worthwhile to any FD. I have not had them inspected or checked actual condition with the units that turned them in. We can do that after the MT forester gets off their butt, requests them and/if they are allocated to MT and to you. I'll send PM as there no doubt are others that would be very interested and point is to test your state forester. Ill send you info for a very nice semi tractor for tanker chassis, a civilian model pickup, and for a 6x6 for wildland, and something else not vehicle. Will try to get a PM off to you today.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by neiowa
            The DOD DRMS (mil surplus system) is going thru some major changes (closing 2/3 of their warehouse/yards) that have somewhat interupted the supply of equipment and made a major PITB to inspect/transport (longer distances). However one of the 18 remaining (or new sites) is at Great Falls, MT. There are three other sites in your "area' Colorado Springs, Co; Minot, ND; and Tacoma, WA. There is no change in the FEPP process where your forester requests (freezes) online DOD or GSA surplus equipment.

            neiowa - could you post the revised list, or a URL for those who are interested in this subject, so they can find other sites around the Country?? Thanks.
            Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
            In memory of
            Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
            Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

            IACOJ Budget Analyst

            I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

            www.gdvfd18.com

            Comment


            • #36
              Just as an aside,

              Although we can participate in the FEPP program,
              we have been advised by GSA that we cannot
              participate in the federal surplus program, other than
              using govdeals.com or such.

              The reasoning behind it is we are not a department
              supported by "public funds". When asked for a defination
              of "public funds" they advised that only a tax based
              fire department was considered to be supported
              by "public funds".

              Comment


              • #37
                Thanks for the info niowa, I did get the emails as well. I have been out of town for CEDAP, I will dig into them as soon as I can and see if I cant get something moving. I kind of have the feeling that the state wants to sit still until fall and the new program, but they could surprise me...not likely.

                Thanks!
                -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
                -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

                -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

                -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Update

                  BOISE, Idaho (AP) - Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns said
                  Tuesday a verbal attack by U.S. Sen. Conrad Burns, R-Mont., on
                  federal firefighters for their work in quelling a Montana wildfire
                  was unfair, adding that he was proud of the job being done by the
                  10,000 U.S. Forest Service firefighters he oversees.
                  Johanns' comments came while visiting the National Interagency
                  Fire Center in Boise, which manages 15,000 firefighters from five
                  federal agencies, including the Forest Service and Bureau of Land
                  Management.
                  Burns made his criticisms during a July 23 confrontation at the
                  Billings, Mont., airport with firefighters from Virginia. He told
                  them they'd done a "****-poor job" of fighting a 143-square-mile
                  eastern Montana wildfire and said Boise was a "ridiculous" site
                  from which to coordinate national firefighting strategy, the Forest
                  Service has said.
                  Johanns was in Boise to attend the World Potato Congress, a
                  symposium on Idaho's No. 1 agricultural crop, but he made a
                  sidetrip to the fire center for an update on extreme fire
                  conditions in the West, where more than 50 large fires are burning.
                  National Weather Service meteorologists predict the next three
                  months will be warmer and drier than usual.
                  "To be quite candid, I think it's very unfair to the
                  firefighters," Johanns said of Burns' comments. Johanns praised
                  them for their determination in dangerous situations - such as an
                  Aug. 13 helicopter crash near Yellow Pine, Idaho, that killed four
                  people, including three firefighters from the Payette National
                  Forest.
                  "It's been a tough season, from a number of standpoints," he
                  added. "But that loss of life makes it especially difficult."
                  Burns, who is locked in a tough re-election battle with farmer
                  and state Sen. Jon Tester, has since apologized for his outburst.
                  Through a spokesman, Burns said he was merely giving voice to
                  frustration of Montana ranchers who lost valuable grazing land in
                  the Bundy Railroad blaze.
                  The cattlemen blamed firefighters for not fighting the fire more
                  aggressively.
                  "It was evident the level of frustration his constituents had
                  in Yellowstone and Big Horn counties," said James Pendleton, a
                  Burns spokesman in Billings. "They (firefighters) would surround
                  the fire, and let the center area burn out. That's grazing land,
                  and it can't be insured."
                  Despite Burns' criticism of the operation in Boise, Pendleton
                  said Burns - a member of a subcommittee that helps negotiate the
                  National Interagency Fire Center's budget - isn't pushing to move
                  the center elsewhere.
                  "The key here is, there needs to be more local input," he
                  said. "We need to look at communication issues, both interagency
                  and communicating with the locals."
                  Fire officials in Washington, D.C., who oversee the Boise
                  center, which employs 500 people during fire season, say they also
                  have no plans to change the mission of the center, which last
                  September stepped in to coordinate relief efforts for U.S. Gulf
                  Coast hurricane victims and rescue crews.
                  "We are satisfied with our interagency coordination," said Tom
                  Harbour, the Forest Service's director of fire and aviation
                  management, in an interview with The Associated Press. Harbour was
                  also in Boise Tuesday.
                  Nonetheless, Harbour said anytime a U.S. senator complains, his
                  agency takes note.
                  Animosities such as those that arose in Montana might have been
                  avoided if there had been a more open dialogue between firefighters
                  and ranchers who feared for loss of fields, he said. Instead of
                  burning out grass to prevent spread of the fire, an alternative
                  might have been considered to preserve more private acreage needed
                  for grazing.
                  "Burning out is something we commonly do on public land,"
                  Harbour said. "On private land, ranchers depend on that forage for
                  income and to feed their families. There's quite a difference. The
                  senator was reacting to concerns of private landowners."

                  (Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
                  Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
                  Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

                  *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
                  On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

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