Building Repeaters

[Ladder5B]

Is anyone familiar with building codes or ordinances that require Type I, II, & III commercial buildings to install a fixed site repeater to aid in 800 Mhz radio communications. If so, how do they work?

[LVFD301]

I have seen some requirements - but with new FCC regulations the placement of in building repeaters may really be stalled.

Broadband repeaters, ie, ones that will work across the 800 mhz
spectrum, doing both public safety, cellular, etc, are pretty much
the norm, and interpetation of the new FCC ruling tends to make the
industry feel that if you repeat any of the services, you have to get
permission from all of the 800 Mhz users in that area.

Even though it would help all of them, it will be a nightmare.

There are also a number of technical issues in doing it RIGHT....

[Ladder5B]

I have not researched enough to know of the technical issues. We have a poorly designed 800 system and our safety committee is exploring the building code option to improve coverage in newly constructed buildings. Just putting feelers out there to see if it is a worh while project.

[RFDACM]

Our local communication center director tried to get the individual municipalities to enact such requirements. The dispatch advisoy board asked for it to be sent to the state as a new law. It would not make it locally as all the towns around are competing for new big box stores and business and don't want to be the ones who are more difficult. We've found the big box stores prevent our crews from speaking directly to dispatch on portable.

[Ladder5B]

Just keeping it up top

[LVFD301]

You might consider a passive repeater. Many radio shops will try to tell you that they don't work, but that is usually due to inproper installation. Paging companies have used them forever.

Cheap too.

[nmfire]

Passive repeaters CAN work when installed and designed properly. In fact, for what little it costs, it is somewhat of a miracle. However, it is not going to ALWAYS be the solution to every building. It is limited to what i can do. You may have no choice but to go active.

And lets not forget, not everyone is 800Mhz. VHF and UHF have just as much trouble getting in and out of these buildings. Personally, I say screw the cell carriers. If the building is on fire with people trapped, I couldn't give a rats behind about cell phones. I want my portable radio to work.

I do believe that the owner should be responsible for making active repeaters part of new construction if needed... however we all know how far that will go.

[Ladder5B]

Can you explain the passive repeater concept?

[ffexpCP]

It's basically 2 antennas connected together with no amplification between them.

[MalahatTwo7]

Randy, there were some pretty major problems with the new system the Victoria Emergency Services went to a few years ago. At one point they had virtually no communications within any building via portable radio. As I recall (its been a while now) the Fire and Police Chiefs got together and purchased the Canadian equal to NEXTEL for their officers. There was also talk of adding portable (attached to truck) repeaters or possibly to the affected buildings.

I've been out of touch with the real news back home, especially on this topic. Jenn or Sheri might have something more up-to-date and accurate.

[nmfire]

Can you explain the passive repeater concept?

High gain directional antenna outside pointed at the nearest radio tower.
Antenna inside the building or 'leaky coax' throughout the building
High quality, low loss coax cable between the two.

Basicly, it gives the inside and outside signals a path to get in and out. It has to be designed very carefully or it won't work. Active means there is a bi-directional amplifier between the two antennas to boost the signal and filter it.

[Ladder5B]

I assume the "active" system is more money. How much? Is there a big performance advantage of the active system?

[ffexpCP]

I assume the "active" system is more money. How much? Is there a big performance advantage of the active system?

Yes. Lots. Yes.

[LVFD301]

The passive repeater has been pretty well described. You can do them in any frequency range, BUT, the antennas need to be tuned as close as possible to the frequencies in use.

As has been pointed out, they are not a cure all, but then again,
NOTHING is. Active amps have plenty of their own issues.

[Ladder5B]

Does anyone else have experience with building code that require active or passive repeaters?