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  • #16
    What do we call them? Useless wastes of space and effort!
    These are my opinions, not those of my career department, my volunteer company, or my affiliates. And by the way, I'm not a Junior.

    Buy me a drink, sing me a song, take me as I come 'cause I can't stay long.

    Johnny Greene: 2/3/45-5/2/04
    Forever in our hearts

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    • #17
      Originally posted by hwoods
      Seriously, We put an Engine on the Hydrant, EVERY TIME. We do NOT connect hose directly to the Hydrant.

      Well, we wouldn't need to much of the time, as usually stage within 100 feet of the hydrant almost anywhere in our village. Occasionally however, we might only get one engine out the door quickly, with the second 5-10 minutes behind.

      In longer lays off a single source, I was thinking that it might be useful to allow for an MA engine or second due to relay without disturbing our supply line.

      General thoughts?
      Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

      IACOJ

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      • #18
        Originally posted by mcaldwell
        In longer lays off a single source, I was thinking that it might be useful to allow for an MA engine or second due to relay without disturbing our supply line.

        General thoughts?
        Yes. Go with that thought
        Tom

        Never Forget 9-11-2001

        Stay safe out there!

        IACOJ Member

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        • #19
          Yup!......

          Originally posted by NYSmokey
          Yes. Go with that thought
          Tom is Correct. Just because you have a wait for your next Engine, your need for immediate Water doesn't change. What works for me, (lots of Engines, fairly close together) will not work for everyone. Another County, not far from us, uses the Humat Valve. Quite often, apparatus from our county will respond to that area, (auto aid, and a "Closest Apparatus no matter who" attitude) and find the line laid out, but not charged. They often take the Humat off the line before hooking up.
          Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
          In memory of
          Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
          Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

          IACOJ Budget Analyst

          I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

          www.gdvfd18.com

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          • #20
            I know a company that uses a Humat valve every time they hit a hydrant. In my 23 years, I can think of only 3 or 4 times that anyone else has actually hooked up to it as a second engine.

            We don't carry one. We did some flow testing with our hydrants and found it was simply not worth it. The added gain was negligible in our situation.
            "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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            • #21
              Reverse lay

              I don't remember the department name but they do a reverse lay 9 times out of 10. In my FFII class we watched a video of them stripping the engine of everything before tearing down the street looking for the hydrant. they had it in about25 ticks and they left a manifold nd started laying hose out. Kinda a different way of doing things.
              J
              It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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              • #22
                Quite often, apparatus from our county will respond to that area, (auto aid, and a "Closest Apparatus no matter who" attitude) and find the line laid out, but not charged.
                Well that is a difference here, we NEVER lay a line without leaving an attendant to charge it. Unless we know the 2nd due is in the rear-view mirror, then we might assign them to connect. Water supply is definitely a priority.

                Originally posted by Bones42
                We don't carry one. We did some flow testing with our hydrants and found it was simply not worth it. The added gain was negligible in our situation.
                That is what I was thinking too, but it is not so much just for flow as pressure compensation. We would likely never lay more than 1000-1500 feet of 4", but since we are in the mountains, it could easily be up a hill with 50-100 feet of vertical drop.

                I don't remember the department name but they do a reverse lay 9 times out of 10. In my FFII class we watched a video of them stripping the engine of everything before tearing down the street looking for the hydrant. they had it in about25 ticks and they left a manifold nd started laying hose out. Kinda a different way of doing things.
                We have thought about that too, and do so in some areas with long hydrant spacing, but I would rather take the 1000 gallons on the truck and get to work. Plus, I prefer to keep my gear and comms close. Radio coverage with portables can be sketchy at the edge of our district, and the mobiles must be used by command for MA and dispatch comms.


                The last thought was that with a small 2 1/2 engine dept, and MA 30 minutes away, if we ever had to disconnect the second engine for any reason, the humat would allow us to do so and still maintain flow (even if decreased). I would certainly not use it every time, but when you wanted it...

                But I could just be over thinking it.
                Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

                IACOJ

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                • #23
                  Mcaldwell, are you talking about a valve we call a "water thief"? If it is the one Roughrider has pictured it is intended to boost available water taken from a hydrant. Basically, it allows you to go below thw 20psi static that commonly is taught.
                  The evidence of God's presence far outweighs the
                  proof of His absence.

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                  • #24
                    If the title of the thread is "Name a valve for me"..

                    We'll call it the MCaldwell valve!

                    We use the hydrant assist valv on out 4" LDH supply lines. We have a section of our fair city that is notorious for having low water pressure ( A hydrant with 35 psi is considered an excellent one in the area) If we need to goose the pressure, no problem..the next engine can do it for us. We also have the Z valves that can be used to boost the pressure if necessary for very long hoselays.
                    DeputyChiefGonzo
                    Forum Member
                    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 07-26-2006, 08:35 PM.
                    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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                    • #25
                      That's the doohickey thing whatchamajigg deal!!

                      Actually I have heard "Humat" or "Hydrant Humet"
                      Jason Knecht
                      Firefighter/EMT
                      Township Fire Dept., Inc.
                      Eau Claire, WI

                      IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
                      http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
                      EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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                      • #26
                        The 4-Way hydrant Valve was used every time we hooked up to a hydrant in my department in Vermont. Our hydrants had very good flow, but very low pressure (most less than 20 psi), so the 4-Way valve would allow the first in engine to lay a line from the hydrant and flow water, and then the second due could just come in and pump-through the 4-Way to increase the flow from the plug. It also eliminated the problem with our odd ball steamers that were not the same size as our mutual aid departments as all the connections on the 4-Way were standard 4" storz.

                        They were also very helpful in relay pumping situations as the hose just had to be on the ground and connected to the 4-Way for water to flow. The pumps could take thier sweet time hooking up to boost pressure. (We also had a hose cart which could lay and we could flow water before waiting for the pumps needed for the relay)
                        Train to fight the fires you fight.

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                        • #27
                          Hmmmm....Fooled me. At first I thought you were talking about a "Blake 4-way" valve.

                          -Bou

                          Link- www.firehydrant.org/info/4way1.html

                          CALFFBOU
                          Banned
                          Last edited by CALFFBOU; 07-27-2006, 06:42 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CALFFBOU
                            Hmmmm....Fooled me. At first I thought you were talking about a "Blake 4-way" valve.

                            -Bou

                            Link- www.firehydrant.org/info/4way1.html

                            What's the difference between that and a "Humat" or "Hydrant Assist Valve" ?
                            Originally posted by ThNozzleMan
                            Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

                            I A C O J
                            FTM-PTB


                            Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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                            • #29
                              Well.........

                              The Humat goes on the Steamer (4-4.5 or whatever) connection, not the 2.5 You connect it to the Hydrant and turn the hydrant on, and the line from the hydrant to the Engine is charged. Later, when another Engine arrives, they connect their suction sleeve to the Steamer outlet on the Humat, and connect a line from their discharge to the Humat "passthru" intake. This allows the second engine to take the water from the hydrant in thru their pump, then boost the pressure and send it back thru the Humat and down the supply line to the first engine.
                              Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                              In memory of
                              Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                              Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                              IACOJ Budget Analyst

                              I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                              www.gdvfd18.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Sounds very similar to the Jaffrey 4-Way Valve we used in Vermont, except both of the boost connections (valve-to-engine and engine-to-valve) connections were 2.5".

                                It was similar to Bou's picture except the direct flow discharge was 4" and it connected to the steamer, not a 2.5" port.
                                LaFireEducator
                                Forum Member
                                Last edited by LaFireEducator; 07-28-2006, 03:22 PM.
                                Train to fight the fires you fight.

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