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Can a deck gun breach a wall?

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  • Can a deck gun breach a wall?

    I get a lot of yes and no responses on this question: Can a high-pressure stream from a deck gun take out a brick wall? Some guys say that it would crack and dislodge bricks, chewing up the mortar. Other guys say no way.
    21
    If the bricks are old?
    14.29%
    3
    If the wall is not too thick?
    28.57%
    6
    If the building has undergone structural damage?
    42.86%
    9
    If the rig is sufficiently close to the building?
    14.29%
    3

  • #2
    Yes and No!

    I know there are some instances where the master stream can dislodge and throw bricks. Some years ago I had bricks rain down on me that were dislodged from a master stream.

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    • #3
      If you throw the deck gun hard enough, it should move a brick or two.
      "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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      • #4
        Seen one knock over a soda machine.
        NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
        IACOJ Attack

        Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

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        • #5
          Not a good solid wall, but an old rotting tenament structure, definitely. It would most likely pick away at it though, not just cause a huge blowout.

          That's a tough batch of selections on your poll though, because it is probaby all of the above. Lots of variables there such as; Pump, stream, distance, wind, wall (brick and mortar), underlying structure, damage levels, etc...
          Last edited by mcaldwell; 07-24-2006, 03:23 PM.
          Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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          • #6
            It depends

            If the sturcture is old and still has Sand-lime mortar any water applied has the ability to bring down the wall and anything attached. Sand-lime mortar was used until the the early 20th century and when water is applied it dissolves the mortar between the bricks. Most of the walls that have this in it will be load-bearing. If you are putting it through a second story or higher window you need to consider that water weighs 8.33 pounds per gallon and if you flow 250 GPM you will add 1 ton of weight that the already weak floor needs to support. The answers given on the survey aren't really specific enough. If you need to use a master stream use caution and evaluate the structure to see if it can handle it. Look for:
            leaning walls
            weird sounds
            those star reinforcing bars telling you the building is already weak.
            general age of building
            load on it, (safe, industrial fridge, any heavy loads on it.)
            just my look on things
            J
            It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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            • #7
              All the above is the correct answer to the poll,.......I didnt vote because any of them can cause a deck gun to collapse a wall.
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              http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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              • #8
                Thanks, guys.

                I appreciate all the responses so far, but yours especially MCFD45. You solved a challenging problem I had. I am greatly in you debt.

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                • #9
                  The correct answer:

                  If you're using a master stream, you shouldn't be in the collapse zone so it doesn't really matter anyway.

                  Ok, so maybe that was the smartass answer...it's late, I'm punchy

                  All the above are reasonable.

                  Not that I'm the most experienced in the world with masonry buildings, but the ones I've seen (mill fires) seem to be the heavy timbers finally collapse inwards weakening the structure...after which the master streams may incidentally chip away at them, but the fire / interior structural collapses are the bigger factor.

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                  • #10
                    I've knocked two hose teams down with a deck gun b/c the walls gave way....

                    The object of using a smoothbore stacker w/ a 1.5" opening at 1,000 GPM was to penetrate what the hose team w/ a 3" line and a smoothbore couldn't. I was trying to tear apart hay bails, as it wasn't safe to enter, and we declared a surround and drown. The stream deflected off metal roofing, popped boards off the outter walls, and knocked the two crews over. The water did, not the boards. Not my fault... I couldn't see the metal in the smoke.

                    The second time, it was a structure, not safe to enter, fire was burning in the kitchen, under the contents of the second floor. We were using a 15' pike to pull crap out, and decided to use the stacked smoothbore to penetrate w/ water, then when it was all thrown around, flood the place with foam. The water went in, through a refrigerator, and out the exterior wall. Knocked the foam guy down. Can't plan for that..

                    So, I suppose, if the wall is weak or damaged enough, it will either give way, or the fire stream will punch through it.
                    Last edited by EMT257; 07-30-2006, 10:15 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Even the guy at Dennys knows a thing or 2. Glad to help you out.
                      It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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                      • #12
                        We've used many a master stream to knock down a suspect wall. Often, by causing the feared collapse we can get back to work.

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                        • #13
                          We sometime use guns from tower ladders to demolish whats left of a building after the fire is knocked. They dont seem to have much trouble knocking down walls.
                          I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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                          • #14
                            Almost hate to go here but......2000 GPM's from a 1" open tip...wow

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                            • #15
                              And................

                              Originally posted by Weruj1
                              All the above is the correct answer to the poll,.......I didnt vote because any of them can cause a deck gun to collapse a wall.
                              I know, I know, A Scary Thought, BUT, I agree with Weruj1. Now it will probably Snow tomorrow......
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