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Shorts as a uniform option????

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  • Originally posted by Res45cuE
    Chicago, LOL. I didn't initially intend to hijack this thread. I realize this horse has been beaten, killed, dug up, beaten, killed, and dug up again, and again, and again.
    I share a good portion of the guilt too. Lol
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Res45cuE
      because we believe NIOSH
      Ok, so obviously you have not been following the thread that was discussing NIOSH and the recent FDNY LODD. The one that someone did some research to find out who actually writes the NIOSH reports/investigations. Most people believe it's long time FF's with many years of experience....and that's not quite true.
      "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Res45cuE
        Chicago, you win. You have successfully stumped me on the stats. I did a 2-minute search on Chicago FF burn injuries, but I could not locate anything. If you could provide me with a hint where to begin my search, I will begin our little scavenger hunt. However, is it possible that Chicago doesn't track these things? I thought the FDNY study was sufficient, because we believe NIOSH when it comes to LODD, but we can't accept their studies when it comes to something we don't agree with?
        For the record, I could care less what FF's wear. My original post was in defense of Chief Alan Brunacini (ret.), who was being slammed for not appearing in any fire texts.
        Having said that, riddle me this, Chicago- Why would an infamously frugal and cash-strapped city like NY decide in 1993 to equip their FF's with bunker pants? Hmmm... Oh, yeah, that's right, the FIRE DEPARTMENT, CITY OF NEW YORK wanted them. Do you think the mayor or city council know bunker pants froma pile of S%&#? Obviously someone in the FDNY was pushing for them (including the union, as I recall). I followed this story in the NY media with great interest in 1993. Although I am not a big fan of the NY Times, they actually had some decent coverage on it.
        First of all, NIOSH is a joke, and so are their fatal fire reports (see the thread about the Brooklyn fatal fire of Jan 05).

        Secondly, the city of NY did not WANT to buy the bunker gear. The city was shamed into the purchase in 1994 after Capt. Drennan, FF James Young, and FF Chris Siedenburg were killed in a fire at 62 Watts Street. President Clinton had made an impromptu visit to the quarters of E24 L5, and Capt. Drennan's wife made a plea to Mayor Guliani.
        Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

        Comment


        • Back to the original topic.

          According to the aforementioned NIOSH study:

          In conclusion, modern uniforms (bunker gear with long pants underneath) dramatically reduced burn incidence and severity, while the modified modern uniform (T-shirts and shorts under bunker gear) significantly reduced heat exhaustion without significantly affecting thermal protection.

          So what do you anti-shorts people have to say about the above?

          Yep... Poor George had to go to the hospital for heat exhaustion... But at least he looked professional while on the stretcher.
          I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

          One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
          "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
          -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

          Comment


          • Originally posted by IronsMan53
            Yep... Poor George had to go to the hospital for heat exhaustion... But at least he looked professional while on the stretcher.
            When he could have just worn boots and avoided the trip to the hospital and looked cool too!
            I am a complacent liability to the fire service

            Comment


            • 4th Welcome to the club

              I hear you are getting a neato Christmas present this year courtesy of the CFD.. Plus you get it personalized !
              IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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              • Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                When he could have just worn boots and avoided the trip to the hospital and looked cool too!
                But not in shorts!

                OOPS! did I just flail the expired equine again?
                ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                Comment


                • thank god some logic

                  Originally posted by PK5343
                  FDNY members are allowed to wear department issued shorts for a portion of the year. Maybe April 1 to October 1. The only time we can't wear shorts is during BI or building inspection which occurs twice a week. Every company has a morning BI 10am-1pm and an afternoon BI 1pm-4pm. Many members wear shorts all year round and it doesn't matter if the whole company is wearing shorts or not.

                  With cardiac problems being one of the biggest killers of FF's, I think it makes total sense to let the brothers wear shorts when it is hot out. Bunker gear is too hot and pants just increase the heat stress on the firefighters.
                  Correct me if I'm wrong, but my friend on the job in the city said once FDNY studied production of FF wearing shorts vs. FF wearing pants and the bare leggeded FF faired marginly better. I think they also studied button down uniform shirts vs. polos or lightweight tees as well. I will attempt to find and reference mentioned test results if they are public.

                  I believe shorts are much lighter and cooler under bunker pants. If its good enough for FDNY its good enough for me. My buddy sees more fire then I will ever see. He wears shorts year round. Most of the guys including him end up wearing bunkers most of the day since they are so busy. EMS runs, they are turning out in shorts under their bunkers. Rarely have I seen them out of station with shorts on, on a job. Not much extra space on an FDNY piece for bunkers, its easier to just wear them.

                  Be Safe
                  my two cents
                  Bryan

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by waags8
                    Correct me if I'm wrong, but my friend on the job in the city said once FDNY studied production of FF wearing shorts vs. FF wearing pants and the bare leggeded FF faired marginly better. I think they also studied button down uniform shirts vs. polos or lightweight tees as well. I will attempt to find and reference mentioned test results if they are public.

                    I believe shorts are much lighter and cooler under bunker pants. If its good enough for FDNY its good enough for me. My buddy sees more fire then I will ever see. He wears shorts year round. Most of the guys including him end up wearing bunkers most of the day since they are so busy. EMS runs, they are turning out in shorts under their bunkers. Rarely have I seen them out of station with shorts on, on a job. Not much extra space on an FDNY piece for bunkers, its easier to just wear them.

                    Be Safe
                    my two cents
                    Bryan
                    The results of that study have already been posted, early in the thread.

                    Unless that was one of Fred's posts and the webteam nuked it
                    September 11th - Never Forget

                    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

                    Sheri
                    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
                    Honorary Flatlander

                    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

                    Comment


                    • Why is FFFred gone again??????
                      I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                        Why is FFFred gone again??????
                        Again? Did he come back since Monday?

                        I was wondering this morning how much longer his "go sit in the corner" will be.
                        September 11th - Never Forget

                        I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

                        Sheri
                        IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
                        Honorary Flatlander

                        RAY WAS HERE FIRST

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by RspctFrmCalgary
                          Again? Did he come back since Monday?

                          I was wondering this morning how much longer his "go sit in the corner" will be.
                          I just meant could someone explain "again". Did he really get booted for badrapping some firefan chief in the desert? Unbelievable.
                          I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                            I just meant could someone explain "again". Did he really get booted for badrapping some firefan chief in the desert? Unbelievable.
                            LOL whooopsi

                            OK I'll try again ...

                            Apparently your assumption is correct.


                            There, how's that?
                            September 11th - Never Forget

                            I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

                            Sheri
                            IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
                            Honorary Flatlander

                            RAY WAS HERE FIRST

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                              Why is FFFred gone again??????

                              Because some jackas* became offended that he didn't get on his knees for a customer service representative located somewhere in the desert.

                              Comment


                              • Steve Gallagher
                                IACOJ BOT
                                ----------------------------
                                "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

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