Shorts as a uniform option????

[ChicagoFF]

Chicago, LOL. I didn't initially intend to hijack this thread. I realize this horse has been beaten, killed, dug up, beaten, killed, and dug up again, and again, and again.

I share a good portion of the guilt too. Lol

[Bones42]

because we believe NIOSH

Ok, so obviously you have not been following the thread that was discussing NIOSH and the recent FDNY LODD. The one that someone did some research to find out who actually writes the NIOSH reports/investigations. Most people believe it's long time FF's with many years of experience....and that's not quite true.

[nyckftbl]

Chicago, you win. You have successfully stumped me on the stats. I did a 2-minute search on Chicago FF burn injuries, but I could not locate anything. If you could provide me with a hint where to begin my search, I will begin our little scavenger hunt. However, is it possible that Chicago doesn't track these things? I thought the FDNY study was sufficient, because we believe NIOSH when it comes to LODD, but we can't accept their studies when it comes to something we don't agree with?
For the record, I could care less what FF's wear. My original post was in defense of Chief Alan Brunacini (ret.), who was being slammed for not appearing in any fire texts.
Having said that, riddle me this, Chicago- Why would an infamously frugal and cash-strapped city like NY decide in 1993 to equip their FF's with bunker pants? Hmmm... Oh, yeah, that's right, the FIRE DEPARTMENT, CITY OF NEW YORK wanted them. Do you think the mayor or city council know bunker pants froma pile of S%&#? Obviously someone in the FDNY was pushing for them (including the union, as I recall). I followed this story in the NY media with great interest in 1993. Although I am not a big fan of the NY Times, they actually had some decent coverage on it.

First of all, NIOSH is a joke, and so are their fatal fire reports (see the thread about the Brooklyn fatal fire of Jan 05).

Secondly, the city of NY did not WANT to buy the bunker gear. The city was shamed into the purchase in 1994 after Capt. Drennan, FF James Young, and FF Chris Siedenburg were killed in a fire at 62 Watts Street. President Clinton had made an impromptu visit to the quarters of E24 L5, and Capt. Drennan's wife made a plea to Mayor Guliani.

[IronsMan53]

Back to the original topic.

According to the aforementioned NIOSH study:

In conclusion, modern uniforms (bunker gear with long pants underneath) dramatically reduced burn incidence and severity, while the modified modern uniform (T-shirts and shorts under bunker gear) significantly reduced heat exhaustion without significantly affecting thermal protection.

So what do you anti-shorts people have to say about the above?

Yep... Poor George had to go to the hospital for heat exhaustion... But at least he looked professional while on the stretcher.

[ChicagoFF]

Yep... Poor George had to go to the hospital for heat exhaustion... But at least he looked professional while on the stretcher.

When he could have just worn boots and avoided the trip to the hospital and looked cool too!

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

4th Welcome to the club

I hear you are getting a neato Christmas present this year courtesy of the CFD.. Plus you get it personalized !

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

When he could have just worn boots and avoided the trip to the hospital and looked cool too!

But not in shorts!

OOPS! did I just flail the expired equine again?

[waags8]

thank god some logic

FDNY members are allowed to wear department issued shorts for a portion of the year. Maybe April 1 to October 1. The only time we can't wear shorts is during BI or building inspection which occurs twice a week. Every company has a morning BI 10am-1pm and an afternoon BI 1pm-4pm. Many members wear shorts all year round and it doesn't matter if the whole company is wearing shorts or not.

With cardiac problems being one of the biggest killers of FF's, I think it makes total sense to let the brothers wear shorts when it is hot out. Bunker gear is too hot and pants just increase the heat stress on the firefighters.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my friend on the job in the city said once FDNY studied production of FF wearing shorts vs. FF wearing pants and the bare leggeded FF faired marginly better. I think they also studied button down uniform shirts vs. polos or lightweight tees as well. I will attempt to find and reference mentioned test results if they are public.

I believe shorts are much lighter and cooler under bunker pants. If its good enough for FDNY its good enough for me. My buddy sees more fire then I will ever see. He wears shorts year round. Most of the guys including him end up wearing bunkers most of the day since they are so busy. EMS runs, they are turning out in shorts under their bunkers. Rarely have I seen them out of station with shorts on, on a job. Not much extra space on an FDNY piece for bunkers, its easier to just wear them.

Be Safe
my two cents
Bryan

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my friend on the job in the city said once FDNY studied production of FF wearing shorts vs. FF wearing pants and the bare leggeded FF faired marginly better. I think they also studied button down uniform shirts vs. polos or lightweight tees as well. I will attempt to find and reference mentioned test results if they are public.

I believe shorts are much lighter and cooler under bunker pants. If its good enough for FDNY its good enough for me. My buddy sees more fire then I will ever see. He wears shorts year round. Most of the guys including him end up wearing bunkers most of the day since they are so busy. EMS runs, they are turning out in shorts under their bunkers. Rarely have I seen them out of station with shorts on, on a job. Not much extra space on an FDNY piece for bunkers, its easier to just wear them.

Be Safe
my two cents
Bryan

The results of that study have already been posted, early in the thread.

Unless that was one of Fred's posts and the webteam nuked it

[ChicagoFF]

Why is FFFred gone again??????

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Why is FFFred gone again??????

Again? Did he come back since Monday?

I was wondering this morning how much longer his "go sit in the corner" will be.

[ChicagoFF]

Again? Did he come back since Monday?

I was wondering this morning how much longer his "go sit in the corner" will be.

I just meant could someone explain "again". Did he really get booted for badrapping some firefan chief in the desert? Unbelievable.

[RspctFrmCalgary]

I just meant could someone explain "again". Did he really get booted for badrapping some firefan chief in the desert? Unbelievable.

LOL whooopsi

OK I'll try again ...

Apparently your assumption is correct.


There, how's that?

[Jasper 45]

Why is FFFred gone again??????

Because some jackas* became offended that he didn't get on his knees for a customer service representative located somewhere in the desert.

[Steamer]