No announcement yet.

Speed.. Bad Speed

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Speed.. Bad Speed

    I thought this was a well written article about the effects of speed and teens. I know it's been said before, but I wish there was an effective was to get the message out. I'm sure this was a very tough call for all of those involved, especially Capt. Nochea.

    Bad Speed
    by Captain Jose A. Nochea

    Rescue 37, Engine 37 respond on a 29 Delta - 4, vehicle versus house and light pole, person trapped. As I made my way into the truck, I had a bad feeling about this one for some reason, and as we turned East into Coral Way from SW 137 avenue, I confirmed my feelings as I could see from the cab of my Quantum engine a mangled sports car that had absorbed most of the impact from the light pole through the passenger door where a 17 Y/O boy sat badly trapped. After conducting my size-up, taking command, and requesting additional required units including TRT, I assigned R37 as medical group, and my three firefighters to set up the jaws and pull and charge the 100’ bumper jumpline.

    The kid in the car called to me to please help him because he could not take it any longer, but then he said something that I will never forget for the rest of my life, “I know that you guys can”. His skin was pale and clammy, and I knew that he was going down quick. I asked him his name and talked to him and told him to hang on as this was going to take some time and that it was going to hurt. He repeated over and over again that he was not going to be able to hang on much longer, and as we made good progress with the difficult and very challenging extrication, I knew that his injuries were fatal and that as soon as we would release the pressure that crushed his torso and legs against the center console, things were going to change rapidly. Once the vehicle was removed away from him through cutting and spreading, the backboard was placed in position. I warned him again that it was going to hurt and asked him if he was ready, his last words to me would be his last ever as he said OK. The kid looked at me one more time as I handled his torso into position on the backboard with the rest of my team, the breathing increased to a horrible snore, and then he closed his eyes for the last time. Even though this patient made it to the trauma center alive, he coded in the elevator with the Air Rescue crew, and was pronounced dead minutes later at Ryder.

    As I write this article on the day following the tragedy, I can’t stop thinking about the fact that I was the last person that this 17 year old spoke to before his short life came to an end. And even though the call went very well from a tactical and patient treatment standpoint, I have thought about if there was something that we could have done differently that would have saved his life. I later realized that the young man’s fate was decided way before we arrived when his body absorbed all of the kinetic energy at the time of impact. I know that most of you brother and sister firefighters have many stories similar to this one, and unfortunately there will be a lot more in the future. Let this article serve as a reminder that we have the responsibility to spread the word to young drivers out there that speeding kills; it kills a lot of them every day. Tell them that speed is only for racetracks and not the streets, otherwise it becomes bad speed.

    This article is dedicated to the memory of Y.D. May he rest in peace, and may the parents who have lost him for ever, find some kind of consolation. A salute and hats off to those involved in the call including R37, R58, S29, AR-South, Batt. 12, Batt. 13, TR1, and my crew on E37.
    Last edited by FTMPTB15; 07-16-2006, 01:12 AM.
    Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.

  • #2

    Say what huh?


    • #3
      Originally posted by cozmosis
      Say what huh?
      sorry.. I was having trouble posting, and didn't feel like taking time to complete an entire post! I know.. I'm lazy!
      Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.


      • #4
        I fail to see the point of posting this article and saying it is about the effects of speed and teenagers.

        It isn't just teenagers that drive fast, drive fast cars, drive fast looking cars, or crash said cars.

        People of all ages are involved in motor vehicle crashes everyday, but when it is a teenager, everyone always points it out.

        Maybe I am biased in saying this, since I am a teen. As far as I can tell, every segment of the driving population is affected in the manner that this tale describes. Teenagers that just got their license, late teens, 20-somethings, 30-somethings, on up to those that are advanced in age.

        Air Force Medic


        • #5
          Originally posted by fdmhbozz
          I fail to see the point of posting this article and saying it is about the effects of speed and teenagers.
          Maybe the fact that the entire article is about a 17yr. old that died due to speeding wasn't enough for you to 'see the point'..

          When was the last time that you responded to an MVA involving an adult in which speed was the cause of accident. Personally, 4 local teens have been involved in speed related fatalities lately.. and the numbers seem to be on the rise lately. Mix underage drinking.. and the numbers dramatically increase. It's no hidden fact, teens speed more than any other age group. Combine that with the lack of experience.

          Oh yea, in no way an I 'dogging' teens.. I'm only early 20s myself.
          Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.


          • #6
            Originally posted by FTMPTB15
            When was the last time that you responded to an MVA involving an adult in which speed was the cause of accident.
            I'd say 3 out of every 5 MVA's around here are either caused by or made worse by a speeding adult. In fact, most MVA's involving teen's that I've been, speed had no direct effect on anything. It is usually something like not negotiating a turn or rear-ending someone because they aren't paying attention.

            I agree that connecting teens and speeding with MVA's is not really accurate. In fact, I would be willing to bet there are a lot more speed related adult accidents. When a teen is involved in one of these accidents, it is usually a major news event and it is also a lot harder on us, as illustrated in this little article.
            Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.


            • #7
              I'll say it right now.....

              Good story Capt Nochea.

              Now for the semantics of your arguments about adults speeding an teenagers speeding.

              Teenagers speed, it's a fact of life. Now couple of that w/inexperience & foolish teenage bravado and you have a recipe(sp) for disaster. Now stop you trying to shift blame to adults because your arguments just won't fly.

              Good luck w/your life and learn to accept responsibility.
              Yes the rigs are green. Can't lose a green fire engine in a parade, right?


              • #8
                I didn't think it was a "good" story. An "all-too-common" story? Yes.

                I do a lot of interstate travel to work and back. I must say, that Georgia's State Patrol does a fine job of monitoring the I-75 through downtown Macon here in central Georgia. It is not uncommon to see 4 or 5 partol cars lined up on the side of the road, waiting to go after cars that get tagged by a cop with a radar gun. Couple that with the fact that the speed limit is 55 MPH through the downtown section of the interstate, and you've got a nice pool of speeders to write up.

                But the I-75 bypass is a speeder's free for all. The speed limit is supposed to be 65. I rarely pass one patrol car all day. I'm talking about cell phone users, with a half-dozen lazer detectors lined up on the dash, all trying to get to work in Atlanta in the next 10 minutes. 18-wheelers driving up behind you so carelessly until they hit the brake 5 feet off of your rear bumber, and all you hear is the thunderous roar of a jake-brake coming on while the truck's driver looks for a lane to swerve into without signaling.

                Wanna guess which interstate branch gets less fatalities?

                And I won't argue that teens don't end up in the front seat of a good bit of these accidents, but the adults who are over-confident of their driving ability don't help, either.
                "Yeah, but as I've always said, this country has A.D.D." - Denis Leary



                • #9
                  There can be no denying that teen drivers die in disproportionate numbers. Speed is but one factor. This is from the Insurance Information Institute.

                  Teen Drivers
                  THE TOPIC

                  JULY 2006

                  Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death among 15- to 20-year olds. According to the U.S. Department of Transportation, 3,620 drivers in this group died in car crashes in 2004, accounting for 14 percent of all the drivers involved in fatal crashes and 18 percent of all the drivers involved in police-reported crashes. Twenty-four percent of the teen drivers killed were intoxicated. In 2002 (latest data available) the estimated economic cost of police-reported crashes involving drivers between the ages of 15 and 20 years old was $40.8 billion, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).

                  Among licensed drivers, young people between the ages of 15 and 20 years old have the highest rate of fatal crashes relative to other age groups, including the elderly. In fact, the risk of being involved in a fatal crash for teens is three times greater than for drivers age 65 to 69.

                  Immaturity and lack of driving experience are the two main factors leading to the high crash rate among teens. Graduated licensing laws, which include a three-phase program that allows teen drivers to develop mature driving attitudes and gain experience behind the wheel, have been successful in reducing teen motor vehicle accidents.

                  RECENT DEVELOPMENTS

                  Crash Facts: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) reports that 3,620 drivers between the ages of 15 and 20 died in motor vehicle crashes in 2004, up 5.0 percent from 3,449 in 2003. Twenty-four percent of the young drivers killed had BACs (blood-alcohol content) levels of 0.08 or higher.

                  A 2005 survey sheds light on young drivers' risky behaviors behind the wheel. More than half (56 percent) of young drivers use phone while driving, according to an Allstate Foundation survey conducted between March and July 2005. These results are from a national online survey of 1,000 people between the ages of 15 and 17 and focus group discussions. Sixty-nine percent said that they speed to keep up with traffic and 64 percent said they speed to go through a yellow light. Forty-seven percent said that passengers sometimes distract them and just about half of them believed that most crashes that involve teens result from drunk driving.

                  Graduated Drivers Licenses: Some people question whether 16-year olds should be allowed to get a drivers license. This issue has gained some attention from a 2005 National Institute of Mental Health report that shows the part of the brain that weighs risks, makes judgments and controls impulsive behavior develops throughout the teen years and does not mature until around age 25.

                  Graduated drivers license (GDL) programs are helping to reduce teen driving deaths. States began enacting GDL laws in the 1990s. The graduated license program is a three-stage license phase-in process that allows young drivers to gain experience before receiving a full-privilege license, see Background. Latest data from NHTSA show that the fatality rate for 16 to 20 year old vehicle occupants in motor vehicle crashes per 100,000 population was 27.07 in 2004, down from 27.67 in 2003 and 30.46 in 1994. The 2004 rate was the lowest since record keeping began in 1975.

                  A study released in July 2006 found that GDL programs can reduce the incidence of fatal crashes for 16-year old drivers by an average of 11 percent. Researchers from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health found that when states had comprehensive GDL programs, those with a least five of the most important elements in effect, there was a 20 percent reduction in fatal crashes involving 16-year old drivers. These elements were:

                  A minimum age of 15 1/2 for obtaining a learners permit

                  A waiting period after obtaining a learners permit of at least three months before applying for an intermediate license

                  A minimum of 30 hours of supervised driving

                  Minimum age of at least 16 years for obtaining an intermediate license

                  Minimum age of at least 17 years for full licensing

                  A restriction on carrying passengers.

                  The study was supported by NHTSA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Researchers used data from 1994-2004 from NHTSA’s Fatality Analysis Reporting System and examined fatal crash data in 36 states that had GDL programs and in seven states that did not. They found that in states that had six or seven components, the fatal crash reduction was 21 percent.

                  One key feature of GDL programs is the passenger restriction which limits the number of passengers a teen driver may have in the vehicle to eliminate distractions. Thirty-four states have enacted these laws with various provisions regarding the ages of passengers and the number a teen driver may transport. According to a 2005 study, when teens drive other teens, they tend to drive faster than other motorists and leave less distance between their vehicles and the vehicles in front of them. They speed more frequently when there are other teens in vehicles, especially males. These findings by researchers at the National Institutes of Health and Westat were compiled from data collected at 13 sites on roads in the Washington, D.C. area, where over 3,000 passenger vehicles were observed, including 471 driven by teenagers.

                  Fatality and injury crash rates for 16-year-old drivers were 20 percent lower in a state with nighttime and passenger restrictions than in a comparison jurisdiction that lacked these provisions for safer teen driving, according to a study released in June 2006 by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety. For the study, the Traffic Injury Research Foundation (TIRF) compared crash rates and crash patterns of teenage drivers in one jurisdiction with nighttime and passenger restrictions during the intermediate stage of GDL with those in another jurisdiction whose GDL program did not include such restrictions. TIRF also surveyed a random sample of 500 crash-free and 500 crash-involved, newly licensed teens and their parents in each of two jurisdictions. The study found that twice as many crash-free teens reported never having violated their state’s passenger restriction provision, compared with teens that had crashed.

                  Cell Phones: Safety experts say that using cell phones while driving is a major distraction and is a factor in crashes, see Cell Phones and Driving paper. More young drivers are using cell phones, according to a February 2005 study from NHTSA. The study reported that 8 percent of drivers age 16 to 24 were using a hand-held phone during daylight hours in 2004, compared with 5 percent in 2002 and 3 percent in 2000.

                  In December 2005 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and the National Center for Statistics and Analysis released the results of their National Occupant Protection Use Survey (NOPUS), which found that in 2005, 6 percent of drivers used handheld cell phones, up from 5 percent in 2004. The survey also found that the jump was significant among young drivers ages 16 to 24, up to 10 percent in 2005 from 8 percent in 2004. The NOPUS is a probability-based observational survey. Data on driver cell phone use were collected at random stop signs or stoplights only while vehicles were stopped, and only during daylight hours.

                  To date, nine states (Colorado, Delaware, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Tennessee, Texas, and West Virginia) have enacted laws that prohibit young drivers from using cell phones when driving. (See State Young Driver Laws chart.) In addition, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, Washington, D.C. and Chicago, IL. ban all drivers from using hand-held cellphones.


                  • #10
                    I blame the system that teaches people of all ages how to drive.

                    The exam for a learners permit: in some states, it's just 10 questions, 7 out of 10 gets you your LP.

                    Driving school: Driving on residential streets, showing how to use hand signals in case your directionals aren't working, paralell parking, doing a three point turn on a hill, and backing up in a straight line.

                    The Driver's test: the same as driving school.

                    Driving schools should be teaching accident avoidance, skid control, threshhold breaking, emergency lane changes and such.

                    The driver's test should include the residential stuff, along with accident avoidance, skid control, threshhold breaking, emergency lane changes and such.

                    There should be a mimimum number of hours of on the road instruction, based on the studen'ts abilities. For example, to get a single engine rated VFR private pilot's license, the FAA requires a student pilot to pass the ground school exam, a medical exam, and have a minimum of 40 hours of flight time, 30 with an FAA certified Instructor pilot, 10 of which must be solo flying.

                    Do all student pilots get their FAA ticket after 40 hours? Hell no! I have 30 hours of dual instruction, and I feel that I am still not ready to solo.

                    Driver's education should be the same. Driving school instructors would have to be certified and licensed by the State.

                    A student would have to pass "road school", then complete road training and have that based on a student driver's abilities. The exam would include residential driving, along with accident avoidance, skid control, threshhold breaking, emergency lane changes and a section of highway.

                    Of course, the costs for getting a license will go up, but it will make the roads safer!

                    PS: I was on this website http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/verkehr.htm and found this little tidbit..

                    In Germany, all drivers have to pass a first aid course in order to get a driver's license, and all cars must carry a first aid kit. Drivers are [b]required[/b ]to render aid should they come upon an accident.

                    I have first aid kits in all of my vehicles.
                    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 07-16-2006, 07:35 PM. Reason: added another little "tidbit"
                    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CaptainGonzo

                      Driving schools should be teaching accident avoidance, skid control, threshhold breaking, emergency lane changes and such.
                      I seem to recall a good driving instruction commercial on ESPN once. Oh, yeah. 1-800-BE-PETTY

                      I agree totally, Gonz. Some simple guesswork is all it takes to pass these exams. Give'em your $15 and you've got yourself a license to kill - I mean, drive.
                      "Yeah, but as I've always said, this country has A.D.D." - Denis Leary



                      • #12
                        It might just be in my area, but the wrecks that draw most of the media attention are teens AND alcohol (really, anyone and alcohol).. not really teens AND speed. In looking back at previous news articles, there are several wrecks that went untold about single vehicle MVAs in which speed was the main factor. In no was I am saying speed is the only factor, as stated previously:
                        Originally posted by FTMPTB15
                        Combine that with the lack of experience.

                        George.. thanks for posting those stats, I was about to go looking for them! I don't know how anyone could believe that adults cause more wrecks than teens, look at insurance rates.. generally they drop as one matures.

                        Nmfire.. either you live in an area with very responsible/mature teens or your response area is filled with adults late for work!
                        Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.


                        • #13
                          I'm not gonna lie to ya, I speed on occasion. But I also know how to handle my car. That comes from driving about 5,000 miles with my parents in the 6 months that I had my learners permit, in the snow in Wisconsin.

                          I personally think that everyone should have to go through a Behind-The-Wheel course that involves skids, emergency lane changes, accident avoidance, etc. It'll only do good.

                          Also, the only reason I replied to this article was for the discussion. And I was wide awake because we had a shake down at 1 am last night.

                          Air Force Medic


                          • #14
                            This is a problem the World over...most RTa's (Sorry MVA's) I attend involve young Drivers, it is by far the biggest killer of young people in the UK.

                            The week of christmas 2004, I attended 4 MVA's, two dead in one car on the morning of 21st Dec, One dead in a car on the evening of the 23rd, another trapped badly injured later that night. In the early hours of christams morning I attended another, one dead, (he was 15) and 4 badly injured...the car left the road and ended up down a verge on its roof. Apart from the incident on the 21st where the Driver & Passenger were both killed, in all the others, the young driver who caused the accident survived.

                            My Station covers an inner London Ghetto, we don't get a lot of MVA work there because its quite heavy with traffic. But I am on call from home on the night time part of my 24 shifts. In the suburbs where I live, there are a lot of very fast roads so the majority of work I get from home late at night are these MVA's...there aren't many that don't involve or are not caused by young Drivers.
                            Steve Dude
                            IACOJ member

                            London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"

                            'Irony'... It's a British thing.


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
                              Driving schools should be teaching accident avoidance, skid control, threshhold breaking, emergency lane changes and such.
                              Cap -

                              When I took Driver's Ed, we did all that. We did accident avoidance driving in wide open parking lots with obstacles, skid control / skid recovery, emergency driving techniques, how to stop without using breaks, all sorts of stuff. There was even a portion where we were taught about emergency scenes (hmmm. I might have done that ) and when encountering emergency vehicles. We had to demonstrate proficiency in what you mentioned before we were allowed to "Pass" the class.
                              Originally posted by ThNozzleMan
                              Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

                              I A C O J

                              Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.


                              300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)


                              Upper 300x250