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  • #16
    Originally posted by SteveDude
    Unbelievably for the third biggest FD in the World that protects the second largest City (by area) in the World...we only have 11 aerial trucks!!!! When I joned we had about 25!!!
    What is the reasoning behind reducing the number of aerials? So if an 8 Pump fire is equal to a 3rd alarm here, what would a 20 Pump fire equal? Maybe an 8th alarm fire? By the way, nice pictures.
    Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.

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    • #17
      More photos here....Poplar Warehouse Fire
      Steve Dude
      IACOJ member
      www.fireservice.co.uk

      London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


      'Irony'... It's a British thing.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by FTMPTB15
        What is the reasoning behind reducing the number of aerials? So if an 8 Pump fire is equal to a 3rd alarm here, what would a 20 Pump fire equal? Maybe an 8th alarm fire? By the way, nice pictures.

        FTMPTB,
        The reason for the loss of aerials was the fact we never used them enough. Bearing in mind we never used then for truck work, only for water towers, rescue and access then they never had a crew who were used other than to operate them.

        As Fire saftery and building construction improved, along with our equipment and training getting more advanced almost all of our Firefighting was done internally from the front door. Therefore aerials got used less and less and as the old saying goes 'if you don't use them you lose them' Some places in Central London are very much like the US...even if there is a cooking pot burning in a third storey kitchen...the ladder will go up, the rest of us, we no longer get these appliances on the first call, and now they have to cover such a large area even where they are on the first call the guys are in done and making the gear up by the time it gets in.

        Make up vs Alarms...I have no idea what type of make up vs what type of alarm. I guess it is down to how many vehicle on each Dept's alarm...8 Pumps may be a third alarm for some but a second alarm for others.

        Basically our is easy to work out, An initial attendance will have 2/3 pumps and maybe an aerial. Most jobs (probably 75%) get dealt with by the first attendance, a room and contents or maybe the upper floor of a house.

        Multiple calls, and a confirmed working job will have 4 pumps and will be known as a '4 pump fire' similar to a all hands/10-75 thing. Still a regular fire, but maybe with a bit more flame or on a higher floor. The photos of the house job further back in this thread got 4 pumps because of calls, but the IC released the other 2 pumps and left it with 2 and there was only a couple of rooms burnt. This will have a Company Officer (Sub Officer/Station Officer) in charge, Fire Investigation and a Command unit will be assigned...London will typically have several of these in a day

        6 pumps will be the next make up, then a ADO (Batt Chief) will take over and the DO (Dep Chief) will monitor. There is usually one or two of these each day

        At 8 pumps, the DO will take over, you will get more chiefs and a senior DO will monitor the DO, a rescue Truck will be assigned along with a hose layer and the Briagde Command vehicle. In total there will now be around 50 Firefighters and Officers on the scene. I guess we see a job like this about once per week.

        This will then go on up through 10, 12 15, 20, 25 and 30 Pumps. We don't often go above 30 Pumps these days as by the time you have everything in place the first ones are due for relief, after 30 they normally start gradually replacing the first with others. I guess 20 Pump fires happen maybe 4 or 5 times per year and a 30 Pump fire is a once a year deal... the last we had was in July last year.
        Last edited by SteveDude; 07-20-2006, 05:32 AM. Reason: correct error
        Steve Dude
        IACOJ member
        www.fireservice.co.uk

        London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


        'Irony'... It's a British thing.

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        • #19
          At least the main thing is no one got hurt and everyone went home.

          I do like the pictures.

          Looks like a lot of hose to pick up too.....
          Jason Knecht
          Firefighter/EMT
          Township Fire Dept., Inc.
          Eau Claire, WI

          IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
          http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
          EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Dickey
            At least the main thing is no one got hurt and everyone went home.

            I do like the pictures.

            Looks like a lot of hose to pick up too.....

            The big hose...that gets picked up by the truck...nice'n'easy... its on the website link below.

            Hytrans Water system
            Steve Dude
            IACOJ member
            www.fireservice.co.uk

            London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


            'Irony'... It's a British thing.

            Comment


            • #21
              That's a really neat system.

              Our "Hose Recovery System" is the newbie!...
              Jason Knecht
              Firefighter/EMT
              Township Fire Dept., Inc.
              Eau Claire, WI

              IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
              http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
              EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

              Comment


              • #22
                You've got to love the UK's ergonomics rules, sure beats loading LDH by hand.

                Larry

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                • #23
                  Believe me...the 1.75" 2.5" and 3" are still loaded by hand...but yep, this new stuff is pretty cool and the amount of water it delivers is phenominal.
                  Steve Dude
                  IACOJ member
                  www.fireservice.co.uk

                  London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


                  'Irony'... It's a British thing.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    FTMPTB,
                    I was no way happy about the losses of the aerials bruv...we should have used them and kept them...now we are suffering becuase thing are not getting any quieter as far as fires go over here.

                    Unfortunately, the money was not spent elsewhere, it was just shaved off of the budget like everything else that has a 'Best value review' over here. Yep, If we were to lose a couple of aerials and gain a few Pumps no one would argue... but..

                    When I joined in '87 we had 114 Stations, roughly three quarters of them were two Pump Stations (Double Engine Co's) and we had 22 aerials in the fleet.

                    Now we have 112 Stations of which only 64? are now 2 Pump Stations and only 11 aerials. Our call rate in that time has risen from around 200,000 to over 300,000.

                    The only thing we have gained (as a result of 9/11) are Rescue Co's...we had 8 when I joined, they went down to 5 but after 9/11 they were increased to 10. After the Bombs in London last year they are going ti put them up to 16 Rescue Co's some with specific capabilities and an increase in number to allow each Company to have some good quality time off line for Training.


                    West Yorkshire is the only UK Fire Service who use "Alarm" systems in place of Making Pumps whatever...there system, familiar to you is detailed here..
                    West Yorks ICS
                    Last edited by SteveDude; 07-20-2006, 07:31 PM.
                    Steve Dude
                    IACOJ member
                    www.fireservice.co.uk

                    London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


                    'Irony'... It's a British thing.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Steve, thanks for that explanation it was most helpful in understanding some of the terminology! It makes sense to 'lose what you don't use' if that money could be better spent elsewhere.

                      Here is how our 'alarm level' works:
                      Fire Alarm calls (smells and bells!)- 1 Engine and 1 Ladder

                      Box Alarm (multiple calls, odor of smoke, several alarms sources, etc.)- 3 Engines, 1 Ladder, and 1 Battalion Chief

                      Working Fire Assignment (once units on scene determine it is a working fire)- add 1 Engine, 1 Rescue, 1 Battalion Chief, and the Arson Task Force (if deemed necessary) to the above Box Alarm assignment. This completes the entire "1st Alarm" Assignment which is 4 Engines, 1 Ladder, 1 Rescue, 2 Battalion Chiefs, and Arson Task Force (if needed).

                      Heavy Box Alarm (high-rise buildings, high risk, etc.)- 4 Engines, 2 Ladders, 1 Rescue, 2 Battalion Chiefs

                      2nd Alarm Assignment- 3 Engines, 1 Ladder, 2 Battalion Chiefs, Shift Deputy Chief, Logistics, PIO (Public Information Officer), Training Staff, Arson Task Force, also (if needed) the Rookies from the Academy

                      3rd Alarm through 10 Alarm- 3 Engines and 1 Ladder


                      Most of our fires are handled with the 1st Alarm Assignment and typically the assignment is reduced to 2 and 1 (2 Engines and 1 Ladder) if it is something minor and/or after a control time is given.
                      Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        WTF!!!! My reply has appeared above your question????

                        And the timing on the left of this one is showing as tomorrow... I am posting in the future!!!! Someone pass me the Lottery numbers
                        Steve Dude
                        IACOJ member
                        www.fireservice.co.uk

                        London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


                        'Irony'... It's a British thing.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Steve, this site is acting crazy today
                          IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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                          • #28
                            man. all those nice fires yall are havin over there make me want to move to london and join the fire brigade. ive always thought my firefighting brothers from london were really cool people. keep up the good work!!!!
                            2009 Warren County Firefighter of the Year

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by KevinFFVFD
                              man. all those nice fires yall are havin over there make me want to move to london and join the fire brigade. ive always thought my firefighting brothers from london were really cool people. keep up the good work!!!!
                              Sounds like a lot of work, but the language barrier might create a safety hazard.
                              I am a highly trained professional and can find my :: expletive deleted:: with either hand in various light conditions.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                hahaha, yeah. but i have a friend who is from "down under" and i now starting to understand him. lol.
                                2009 Warren County Firefighter of the Year

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