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  • #31
    The more people I talk to, the more I realize we are going to get screwed on this deal. I heard from two guys that were in on the test awhile back and they said the Lion gear was the absolute worst. Something fishy is definately going on with this whole deal. Why in the world did the Union push for this when no one even wants bunker gear and the guys pushing for it admit there is no need for it. Now we are really trapped. I wish people would think before they jump into something just because "everyone else is doing it". Much to the dismay of the safety sissies, when worn properly and in conjuction with our fireground operations (ie coordinated truck and engine work) our boots have proven over decades to be as safe as anything else. This is going to be a goddam^ mess! When will people learn that change for the sake of change is is bad for everyone!!!!
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    • #32
      Originally posted by spegram
      I heard the Lion Bid was for Nomex? and Morning Prides was PBI Any truth to that?

      If so that dosn't sound like comparing apples to apples.
      I don't know what MP bid, but the gear we are supposed to get is NOT PBI.
      I am a complacent liability to the fire service

      Comment


      • #33
        CHICAGOFF:

        Each fd is different in what they choose to wear. We use Lion and have had no problems with it what so ever. If thats what works for the Chicago F.D then why change it? I don't have a problem with wearing bunker gear, but I must say I really harp on my people about safety and wearing the proper gear. I was thinking the other day we had a garage/appt bldg on fire a couple months ago and I'm the Asst. chief so I don't fight much fire anymore, but this night we had very little help so I was on the nozzle, so in the mean time the fire was about 30 sec from the fd,and I'm always losing stuff and couldn't find my hood so I said fu^# it and went in with out it,so we're inside for a few minutes and we have alot of smoke/heat but no fire yet.( And you no the old stories the older guys talk about back in the day ,when your ears start tingling and can't stand it so you get the hell out) well thats what I felt and I told my partner we got to back out so we did and as soon as we did you know what hit the fan. So the reason I'm telling you this, and this is my own opinion if you look at the big picture of how they use to do it, and how we do it now using the hip boots,no hood I honestly think it would be alot more safer and ff's wont get in to deep and things would be better!And if you throw in todays technology with the scba/tic I think it would be great. I started out wearing hip boots and I actually miss them. We wear securitex at the fd I work at at and have no problems with that. I know you don't want to hear that but that's my 2 cents worth!!BE SAFE

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        • #34
          ChicagoFF.....

          I know in the past I have said I couldn't care less what you guys wear in "The Isle of Chicago" but for the love of God your UNION wanted this? My advice now is get over it. Wear the stuff and if the Union was behind it and enough of your guys hate it....get rid of them. Elections should be coming.

          Wearing bunkers isn;t the end of the world...my career FD is issuing Morning Pride. My volly FD uses Bristol. The MP is PBI, the Bristol is Nomex Delta T, is I believe it is a nomex and Kevlar blend.

          Bristol is the lightest, most flexible and comfortable PPE I have ever worn. That with a good pair of leather boots is the cat's ***.

          FyredUp
          Crazy, but that's how it goes
          Millions of people living as foes
          Maybe it's not too late
          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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          • #35
            Rather than try to push to stop the change, push for a compromise. I believe Boston gives its crew the opition of what they want to wear? I may be wrong.

            But have the union push for that. Have them give guys the opition of both and let them choose.
            The Box. You opened it. We Came...

            "You'll take my life but I'll take your's too. You'll fire musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack, you'll better understand there's no turn back."

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            • #36
              Originally posted by FyredUp
              ChicagoFF.....

              I know in the past I have said I couldn't care less what you guys wear in "The Isle of Chicago" but for the love of God your UNION wanted this? My advice now is get over it. Wear the stuff and if the Union was behind it and enough of your guys hate it....get rid of them. Elections should be coming.
              As far as I know it was one guy in our Union that stirred this up and now he's in the trick bag over the Lion contract and no one is gonna end up happy. He thought he was doing a good thing - complete absence of malice - but once the genie is out of the bottle it is hard to put back.
              I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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              • #37
                Originally posted by EFD840
                Down here, we call the high 70's and low 80's a very refreshing cold front!

                OK, but we are expected to get quite 'Mild' by your comparison...93-97 predicted in London and the S.E UK this week. We may even get to equal the 2003 record of 100f...Now that must be a little bit warm for you right???
                Steve Dude
                IACOJ member
                www.fireservice.co.uk

                London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"


                'Irony'... It's a British thing.

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                • #38
                  right now, the average is around 101-103 with a heat index of at least 105 with around 60-80% humidity at times. There are three things that suck right now:

                  1-Brush fires. But thankfully, we arent required to bunk out for them
                  2-Gas Leaks and False alarms-Full bunkers with packs going through a warehouse that doesnt have air conditioning. Even at night time, when its mid 90's, there is a higher humidity.

                  3-Structure fires. I love my fire but.... holy cow.

                  ChicagoFF... just wait a while, like 6 months. Then, hopefully, this may sound bad, but there may be a higher increase in heat releated injuries or even burns and the union can man up and say "We dont want this now."
                  The Box. You opened it. We Came...

                  "You'll take my life but I'll take your's too. You'll fire musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack, you'll better understand there's no turn back."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                    Anyone have an opinion or experience with Lion Bunker gear? Nomex/Kevler specifically - not PBI. Apparently we signed a contract with them for new gear and many are unhappy with the switch in general and Lion specifically since it scored the lowest when tested in the field by fire companies here. Gimme your input!
                    In the DCFD we use all Globe turnout gear. About a year ago we got the G-xtreme gear and have great success with it. Everyone loves it, and we have had no issues with it.

                    You may want to contact someone with the Baltimore City FD for info on Lion gear. They are wearing Lion PBI turnout gear. They go to a lot of fires and are an aggressive FD, so they should be able to give you some good feedback on that gear.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                      Anyone have an opinion or experience with Lion Bunker gear? Nomex/Kevler specifically - not PBI. Apparently we signed a contract with them for new gear and many are unhappy with the switch in general and Lion specifically since it scored the lowest when tested in the field by fire companies here. Gimme your input!
                      Why is your department going with Nomex/Kevlar instead of PBI? I am a big proponent of PBI, and believe that is the only way to go. Besides the fact that it is the best gear out there for protective qualities, I am a big fan of it because of it's durability. Chicago is a big busy department which goes to a lot of fires, and you would be better off wearing something which was made to handle the abuse and wear and tear it will see in your department.

                      I have seen how PBI gear has held up in the DCFD, and I've been very impressed over how it performed. Prior to becoming a career firefighter I was a volunteer in a small town department. We wore Nomex, and then later one of the Nomex derivative gear (I believe Advance). And that stuff never held up the way that I've seen PBI perform. PBI is also better for abrasion and tear resistance which will also benefit a busy department. But it's just it's shear ability to withstand the rigors and wear and tear (and abuse) that a busy big city fire department would put it through that has really sold me on it.

                      I have seen PBI gear in the DCFD last much longer than I ever thought possible. And years ago we had a lot of old gear because we couldn't afford to get newer stuff as often, and we also didn't take care of that old gear well (unlike today where we have all newer gear and it gets professionally cleaned and cared for regularly). Considering what that gear went through and the lack of care given to it, I was amazed at how well it held up and how long we were able to get good service from it.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                        Im not really worried about it keeping heat out. I'm more concerned with it keeping heat in. So far, it sounds bulky and hot. What is the thinest, lightest stuff out there? Is there such a thing as thin, light bunker gear?
                        The vapor barrior probably has the most to do with this. There are different options in which vapor barrier to use. You will need to look at the types of vapor barriers to determine which one will give you the fit/performance you desire. This has nothing to do with the brand of gear either, as most of them offer all of the same options.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ChicagoFF
                          Im not really worried about it keeping heat out. I'm more concerned with it keeping heat in. So far, it sounds bulky and hot. What is the thinest, lightest stuff out there? Is there such a thing as thin, light bunker gear?
                          Interesting story from FH front page...

                          Almost three dozen firefighters succumbed to searing heat and humidity yesterday battling a three-alarm blaze that gutted sections of a Brooklyn building and left some 100 people temporarily homeless.

                          Thirty firefighters were treated at Kings County Hospital for heat exhaustion and another five for minor burns they suffered putting out the blaze at 201 Linden Boulevard in Flatbush.
                          Burns and heat exhaustion? Great, sign me up, I'm convinced!
                          Last edited by ChicagoFF; 07-18-2006, 05:58 PM.
                          I am a complacent liability to the fire service

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DCFDL36
                            Why is your department going with Nomex/Kevlar instead of PBI?
                            For all the usual, disgusting reasons I suppose.
                            I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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                            • #44
                              ChicagoFF, keep us updated if you can. Hopefully they will give you guys at least the option of wearing either or.

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                              • #45
                                I just stumbled across this topic. Yes we are in the process of getting bunker gear. they are calling members down on duty to get fitted as we speak. ChicagoFF speaks of the union wanting bunker gear. Yes they wanted bunker gear but not Lion specifically. They were asking for MP but in the way politics works. The city went with LION. They were not even the lowest bid. I heard theyt were chosen because it was a NON UNION outfit. Now what kills me is they chose a UNION company for the manufacturer of the boots. Lacrosse. I have been off so i dont actually know more. I go to work tomorrow and will keep you updated.
                                WEST SIDE BEST SIDE

                                www.chicagobomberos.com

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