Announcement

Collapse

Firehouse.com Forum Rules & Guidelines

Forum Rules & Guidelines

Not Permitted or Tolerated:
• Advertising and/or links of commercial, for-profit websites, products, and/or services is not permitted. If you have a need to advertise on Firehouse.com please contact sales@firehouse.com
• Fighting/arguing
• Cyber-bullying
• Swearing
• Name-calling and/or personal attacks
• Spamming
• Typing in all CAPS
• “l33t speak” - Substituting characters for letters in an effort to represent a word or phrase. (example: M*****ive)
• Distribution of another person’s personal information, regardless of whether or not said information is public knowledge and whether or not an individual has permission to post said personal information
• Piracy advocation of any kind
• Racist, sexual, hate type defamatory, religious, political, or sexual commentary.
• Multiple forum accounts

Forum Posting Guidelines:

Posts must be on-topic, non-disruptive and relevant to the firefighting community. Post only in a mature and responsible way that contributes to the discussion at hand. Posting relevant information, helpful suggestions and/or constructive criticism is a great way to contribute to the community.

Post in the correct forum and have clear titles for your threads.

Please post in English or provide a translation.

There are moderators and admins who handle these forums with care, do not resort to self-help, instead please utilize the reporting option. Be mature and responsible for yourself and your posts. If you are offended by another member utilize the reporting option. All reported posts will be addressed and dealt with as deemed appropriate by Firehouse.com staff.

Firehouse.com Moderation Process:
Effective immediately, the following moderation process will take effect. User(s) whose posts are determined by Firehouse.com staff to be in violation of any of the rules above will EARN the following reprimand(s) in the moderation process:
1. An initial warning will be issued.
2. A Final Warning will be issued if a user is found to be in violation a second time.
3. A 3-day suspension will be issued if the user continues to break the forum rules.
4. A 45-day suspension will be issued if the user is found to be a habitual rule breaker.
5. Habitual rule breakers that have exhausted all of the above will receive a permanent life-time ban that will be strictly enforced. Reinstatement will not be allowed – there is no appeal process.

Subsequent accounts created in an effort to side-step the rules and moderation process are subject to automatic removal without notice. Firehouse.com reserves the right to expedite the reprimand process for any users as it is deemed necessary. Any user in the moderation process may be required to review and agree to by email the terms and conditions listed above before their account is re-instated (except for those that are banned).

Firehouse.com reserves the right to edit and/or remove any post or member, at any time, for any reason without notice. Firehouse.com also reserves the right to warn, suspend, and/or ban, any member, at any time, for any reason.

Firehouse.com values the active participation we have in our forums. Please ensure your posts are tasteful and tactful. Thank you very much for your cooperation.
See more
See less

L.A.S.T. Drill RE-Hash

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • L.A.S.T. Drill RE-Hash

    Thought it has been a while since it has been talked about and it's a new year with new people from all over checking this site out. If you haven't seen this "saving our own" method (Large Area Search Team - Developed by Kansas City Missouri Fire Dept) you may want to watch this video frrom KCFD. We have done it (I am not on the KCFD) and it works very well.
    http://www.kcmo.org/fire.nsf/web/training?opendocument

  • #2
    If that is the same video most have seen, there have been some additions as of late. (OK dont know how late it is but there is some new stuff)

    the Truck/Rescue stuff I beleive remains the same, but they have also added an Engine/Pumper dimention to the Large area drill. I cant(wont) go into detail but maybe we can page Jerry Garcia over here, or KCfireguy.
    I.A.C.O.J. "The Cork"

    Comment


    • #3
      The last time we did this was when they had just added the pumper aspect to the training. It is complicated to describe except that you have another crew with hand lines carried on two members shoulders follow line and provide protection in case of a delayed extraction.

      Another training method that is used for large area (well known) was tested by a department in Kansas, along with ours. Two teams from the Kansas Dept were trained on only one of the methods. During the test KC's crew never came out empty handed and time was quicker every single time. The victim was placed in the same spots and everything was equal.

      If you want info I'd suggest contacting the training division, I know the guys travel and do some training elsewhere.

      Be Safe!

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm not sure what department you were talking about kcfireguy but we went through something very similar here in Wichita.
        A little background -- The KC guys came down to teach the LAST during our Winter Fire School last year. Myself, another ff and my Lt. attended the class. We found the method was simple and easy. We took the idea back to our Chief and he liked the idea and said he wanted us to teach the rest of our battalion. We put together an equipment list (we had to make due with certain items). We ran our battalion through two evolutions. Finding a downed firefighter in a large area using our current method (which consisted of using rope bags attached to our SCBA's (about 75'), finding a wall, following the wall and then tie off to another when you run out of rope) and finding a downed firefighter using the LAST method. Pretty much each group improved thier time using the LAST method. Another crew on a different shift was working on finding a downed firefighter in a large area using a different method and the higher ups decided to put us against each other to decide which method would be implimented to our entire department. The LAST method won hands down. My crew was then selected to help teach this method to the rest of the crews on our shift and was implimented department wide. The only drawback has been that we have not trained on this for nearly a year. However, I still believe that this is a great was to locate a downed firefighter in a large area. If anyone has not been and gets a chance to attend this training, I highly recommend it.

        Also, when we went through the class, there was nothing being done with hoselines. How exactly are they being used during the large area search?

        Comment


        • #5
          The lines are being used in conjunction with the searchers that are on the tag line. They are sent using the rescuers rope for guidance with a backup water supply as no situation like this is without the presence of fire. It was a teaching tool to be able to cover the rescuers. Contact the KCFD training division if you would like more information.

          The L.A.S.T. trainers are going cross country to instruct upon request I believe.

          Just as all of the 'saving our own' training, this technique was the result of losing one of our own brothers on the KCFD. RIP John.

          Be safe.

          Last edited by jerrygarcia; 01-12-2006, 08:03 AM.
          Thread Killer Extraordinaire!

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Jerry, & KCfireguy, When I was able to run through the training, I was focused on the Truck/Rescue side, so I wasnt aware of what exactly they were doing "over there".

            I try to volunteer for the training whenever I can get the time off the day job.
            I.A.C.O.J. "The Cork"

            Comment


            • #7
              A few questions

              How long is the initial tag line?
              I noticed the radio traffic was assigning times "Rescue 9A youre at 3 mins". Is the first team set at a certain time limit?
              Are multiple initial teams entering thru seperate access points?
              If not, why? Was this tried and did it develope problems?
              Are the water lines stretched dry?
              We deploy a similar idea for wide area seaches, unlike an office floor with many cubicals more of a warehouse with large open areas, using a tag line yet we require a man to be positioned at the inital tag line hook up to prevent "accidental" dislodging. Is this done, just not shown on the video?

              Believe me, Im not knocking your approach because obviously all the theory behind the methods development and deployment arent shown in the video. Just a few quick questions that came to mind.

              Any plan is better than no plan especially when it comes to saving our own.
              Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PFDTruck18
                How long is the initial tag line?300feet
                I noticed the radio traffic was assigning times "Rescue 9A youre at 3 mins". Is the first team set at a certain time limit?this is just a time frame so command knows how everyone is doing as far as air is concerned
                Are multiple initial teams entering thru seperate access points? Team A finds & prepares the victim, Team B goes in fast and leads the whole team out
                If not, why? Was this tried and did it develope problems?
                Are the water lines stretched dry?when I participated in the drill, yes it was dry
                We deploy a similar idea for wide area seaches, unlike an office floor with many cubicals more of a warehouse with large open areas, using a tag line yet we require a man to be positioned at the inital tag line hook up to prevent "accidental" dislodging. Is this done, just not shown on the video?I want to say the safety officer is looking out for the tagline, but on scene there will always be a "next team" preparing to enter

                Believe me, Im not knocking your approach because obviously all the theory behind the methods development and deployment arent shown in the video. Just a few quick questions that came to mind.

                Any plan is better than no plan especially when it comes to saving our own.
                I tried to answer his question in red, but please fell free to correct me if wrong, especially on the safty officer's role, and extra teams
                I.A.C.O.J. "The Cork"

                Comment


                • #9
                  What I meant by this "Are multiple initial teams entering thru seperate access points?" is: Ifs its a large office building say 100 x 100 chopped up alot with multiple access doors, do you start inital search teams from as many points of access as possible, or do you stay with 1 search team? It seems this is really a moot point, available manpower would dictate the application of this approach. I guess it comes down to this, if you did start multiple teams, in the plans development, did they run into problems?

                  Thanks for the rest.
                  Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I will have to defer to the KC guys on that one. I have only seen them make one single entry point.
                    I.A.C.O.J. "The Cork"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PFDTruck18
                      How long is the initial tag line?
                      I noticed the radio traffic was assigning times "Rescue 9A youre at 3 mins". Is the first team set at a certain time limit?
                      Are multiple initial teams entering thru seperate access points?
                      If not, why? Was this tried and did it develope problems?
                      Are the water lines stretched dry?
                      We deploy a similar idea for wide area seaches, unlike an office floor with many cubicals more of a warehouse with large open areas, using a tag line yet we require a man to be positioned at the inital tag line hook up to prevent "accidental" dislodging. Is this done, just not shown on the video?

                      Believe me, Im not knocking your approach because obviously all the theory behind the methods development and deployment arent shown in the video. Just a few quick questions that came to mind.

                      Any plan is better than no plan especially when it comes to saving our own.
                      The tag line is 300'. A BC is set up at the entry point to control time and entry with his District Safety Officer. Every 3 minutes he reports time elapsed and has to have a confirmation from entry team A. If a response is not received after a certain amout of time, the B team makes entry to follow on the tag. A second team is always at ready when any team is deployed. I believe that the entry time is set at 12 minutes until the team is called out. A single entry point is made, I would not want to confuse tag lines or get them tangled.
                      Thread Killer Extraordinaire!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I love it! All my questions were answered without an arguement. Gotta be a first! Thanks.
                        Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

                        Comment

                        300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                        Collapse

                        300x600 Forums Only

                        Collapse

                        Taboola

                        Collapse

                        Upper 300x250

                        Collapse

                        Lower 970x90

                        Collapse

                        Lower 728x90

                        Collapse

                        Lower 300x50

                        Collapse
                        Working...
                        X