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  • #31
    There are still many of you here that simply donot get it. NYC is not your little piece of America. It is an extremely large, extremely unique city that has more people, more commerce and more money than many states and even some countries. There are what, almost 12,000 FF and over 30,000 police officers? That is more than the population of most of your towns.

    NYPD ESU is not the "FDNY Light". Click on the Live Dispacth seciton of this site and scroll down util you see the NYPD section. Listen for awhile at the numerous jobs the ESU goes on that have zero to do with any duty the FDNY has. Then click on the FDNY and listen to whatever boro you want and listen to the overwhelming number of jobs that they respond to that have nothing to do with law enforcement functions.

    True, there is duplication of services. There are some operational conflicts and there is some very limited anomosity. But you will quickly learn that there is a place for them in the world of NYC and it works pretty well. Not perfect, not even very good at times, but pretty well all the time.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    • #32
      People knock the fact that NYPD ESU does a thing or two the that FDNY Squads and Rescues do primarily. Well how about the fact that we have fire marshalls running around with pistols on their waist and powers of arrest?

      Those guys have additional skills that serve the residents and visitors of NYC well, and more times then not serve as a great assistance to the guys of FDNY. I doubt that there have been any few firefighters hired due to their existance, and their have not been fewer cops hired due to the fire marshalls existance. Different Fire Companies butt heads all the time on calls, and we don't call for disbanding them, because most of the time it is a help to have additional assets to serve us.
      Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
      -Big Russ

      Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

      Originally posted by nyckftbl
      LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

      Comment


      • #33
        There are still many of you here that simply donot get it.
        Oh, I think I "get it". We deal with the same thing here, only on a smaller scale (and no PD ESU). 20 FD's, 20 PD's, the Sheriff, county ambulance service. We have our own mess. And although we have money problems as does everyone else, we recognize that all the duplication of service is wastefull, and our trying to fix it. I would just think that NYC, with the BIG money problems they have would come to the same conclusion.
        Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

        IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

        "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
        RUSH-Tom Sawyer

        Success is when skill meets opportunity
        Failure is when fantasy meets reality

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Dave1983


          Oh, I think I "get it". We deal with the same thing here, only on a smaller scale (and no PD ESU). 20 FD's, 20 PD's, the Sheriff, county ambulance service. We have our own mess. And although we have money problems as does everyone else, we recognize that all the duplication of service is wastefull, and our trying to fix it. I would just think that NYC, with the BIG money problems they have would come to the same conclusion.
          Trust me, you don't get it.

          People knock the fact that NYPD ESU does a thing or two the that FDNY Squads and Rescues do primarily. Well how about the fact that we have fire marshalls running around with pistols on their waist and powers of arrest?
          This is an interesting point. This is also actually a study in success. The BFI generally responds very early in the game to fires within a certain criteria. Their foremost responsibility is to determine the origin and cause of the fire. When they determine a criminal-related fire, they bring in the NYPD Arson/Explosives Unit. They then work the case as a coop.

          What is interesting is that the FF major talent is the scene work (which they often do in conjunction with units like NYPD CSU or TARU). The AEU job is primarily the leg work. Both jobs are doing what they do best and what they most like to do.

          Again, of course there are times when they butt heads. But for the most part, it works very well.
          PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

          Comment


          • #35
            For George,
            I have been on both sides of this fence. You say listen to ESU on the radio, do one better, listen to them while sitting behind them in your car, you will see that ESU "jobs" are like everything else in NYPD - smoke and mirrors. You can do this at home, listen to them, pick a unit like ADAM1. While listening look at a Manhattan map and write down the "responses" they "make." Unlike FDNY units who are actually responding when dispatched, NYPD units can be assigned to multiple jobs at once. You could work ESU and "document" 30 radio runs on the daytour without ever getting to an incident let alone getting out of the truck and doing something.
            Most incidents that ESU units "respond to" are handled by precinct units who are actually on-scene.
            ESU has their place as a police tactical unit, they are supposed to be protecting cops. They do the police stuff well, the "dual response stuff" not so much, they simply do not have the manpower to sustain any operation without depleting their Police capabilites and they don't want to sustain the operation, they just want photo's of ESU cops carrying stokes baskets or getting in the way.

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            • #36
              As for the marshalls, the PD cannot touch their level of expertise in cause and origin, however I think that within a short period of time they too will be a part of FD history. The current administration already closed 6 companies and most of the BFI bases, he (Bloomburg) has already stated that "when" he is re-elected he plans on closing 25-30 more companies.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by jfTL41
                As for the marshalls, the PD cannot touch their level of expertise in cause and origin, however I think that within a short period of time they too will be a part of FD history. The current administration already closed 6 companies and most of the BFI bases, he (Bloomburg) has already stated that "when" he is re-elected he plans on closing 25-30 more companies.
                Don't bet on Bloomberg calling for the closing of the BFI. They are one of, if not THE only union to endorse him when he ran.

                As far as your other post, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Police responses are way different than FD responses. It is not uncommon to stack calls until a unit is available. I completely agree that many ESU responses are called off before they commit, but I can't see that as a negative. They are called off because the job was unfounded or the precinct cops were being cops and called off ESU when they are not needed. They just move on to the next stacked call.

                My point was to listen to them to see what types of jobs they are sent to.
                PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I don't get what all the fuss is about here. Unless you work for FDNY or live in NYC...who cares? I'm sure if the whole FDNY/ESU situation was that ridiculous/terrible the brothers on here would let us know. Just a thought.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    George,

                    "Don't bet on Bloomberg calling for the closing of the BFI. They are one of, if not THE only union to endorse him when he ran."

                    The Marshals are members of the UFA, their bosses are in the UFOA. He closed companies last year didn't he? This man does not care about politics or votes, he has stated this repeatedly and shows it everyday. He is trying to run the city as a business governed by the bottom line and it's not working out too well for us.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Trust me, you don't get it.

                      Whatever
                      Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

                      IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

                      "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
                      RUSH-Tom Sawyer

                      Success is when skill meets opportunity
                      Failure is when fantasy meets reality

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Police capabilites and they don't want to sustain the operation, they just want photo's of ESU cops carrying stokes baskets or getting in the way.
                        I will say in my dealings with them most of the ESU guys do their job and aren't usually a pain in the ***. Although there are some guys with attitudes that cause problems.(just like we have some as well).

                        That being said I can relate a little story about the Penn Station Train Accident Last year that went to 3 alarms and how the NYPD ESU Media Whores worked. After assisting with packaging a number of patients that had very minor injuries (looking to sue the MTA or NJT). We were along with many other companies standing by in case more people needed treatment. ESU was milling around as well.

                        There were many more patients than avaiable ambulances so they had to wait on the backboards while some busses would come to the street level and pick a few up.

                        Well suddenly a swarm of media and cameras came down the escalators with PC Kelly and I think FD Chief of Ops Cassano and maybe the FD commish. Someone somewhere with a ESU radio tiped these guys off and as the cameras were comming down....sudenly these commandos grab a few backboards with patients attached and make a large commotion and hustle them up the escalators. (They were in such a hurry to look good they actually DROPPED a Patient while getting on the escalators!) The Cameras got their shots of ESU hard "at work" and the patients that were wisked to the surface presumably because they were in critical need of awaiting ambulances.... They were left on the pavement in the driveway under the Garden because there were no ambulances comming for some time. I had to go to the street to get something for the boss and I stood and watched for awhile and they laid there for some time. Needless to say completely unnecessary other than it was a show for the media at these patients expense.

                        FTM-PTB

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by jfTL41
                          George,

                          "Don't bet on Bloomberg calling for the closing of the BFI. They are one of, if not THE only union to endorse him when he ran."

                          The Marshals are members of the UFA, their bosses are in the UFOA. He closed companies last year didn't he? This man does not care about politics or votes, he has stated this repeatedly and shows it everyday. He is trying to run the city as a business governed by the bottom line and it's not working out too well for us.
                          So if a FDNY Frei MArshal claimed to be a member of the Fire Marshal's Benevolent Association, they would be lying? There is no such organization? They didn't endorse the Mayor in his election bid?
                          PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            The FMBA is an association, marshals and sfm's are in it, it is not a labor union, the marshals are UFA members and the supervising marshals are UFOA members.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The Mayor has no regard for politics or who voted for him, he gets missile lock on something and is used to getting what he wants. I.E. the Westside stadium drama, it wouldn't surprise me to see him personnally outbid the opposition and build his own damned stadium/ conference center.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by jfTL41
                                The FMBA is an association, marshals and sfm's are in it, it is not a labor union, the marshals are UFA members and the supervising marshals are UFOA members.
                                I stand corrected. Thank you.

                                But the FMBA DID endorse him, was I correct in that?
                                PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                                Comment

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