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  • staffing levels on response

    Presently battling with our communications center about the units responding with their staffing levels. What are your thoughts?

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  • #2
    What's the battle, you tell them how many of what goes to what and they dispatch it.

    In case I misunderstood what the question is let me give you some of my feelings on staffing.

    Every engine or ladder should have 4 firefighters on it, minimum, 5 or 6 preferred. Any less (and it happens everywhere) and the company isn't effective. Just think about it. How many people do you need to stretch and advance a line to the 2nd floor of a house. You have a nozzleman, a backup man, some one at the front door to feed line and you need someone at any major bend that you go around.

    That's 4 guys not counting the engineer and officer, and you shouldn't count on the officer to hump hose. If he is on the line it is harder for him to supervise the crew.

    Next tower drill try it both ways. Do a stretch with 3. then try it with 5 or 6 and tell me what your preference is.

    How many of you respond with a 3 man truck? When you arrive on the scene you're told to put up the 50' extension ladder for a rescue....Good Luck.

    Let's start a trend of responding to calls with enough firefighters on the rig to accomplish the task given to us.



    [This message has been edited by ADSN/WFLD (edited 02-02-2001).]

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    • #3
      Your comment brings two things to my mind. The first thing is physically telling dispatch the staffing of each piece. I have been taught from day one to give the number of personnel and any officers on board (Even for ambulance calls).
      The second thing is min staffing requirements. I agree that each piece should have at least 4 guys on board, but it is not always realistic especially during the day at a volunteer department. The only way to utilize a "driver only" piece is to dispatch for manpower.

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      • #4
        I guess I should have clarified my original post.

        When responding on box alarms, our comm center does not recogonize when units give their staffing levels.

        What are your thoughts, pros/ cons?

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        • #5
          I might be off base here - but I think your question is in regards to a radio method that will allow your communications center or the commanding officer on location to know what your manpower status is. If that's the case - simply give your unit number followed by the number of firefighters followed by the number of officers on board.

          Example: You're Captain of Engine 7 and your company receives an alarm for the A&P supermarket. You, your Lieutenant and five firefighters show up. You'd say; "Engine 7 responding A&P 5 and 2." That works; because it's brief, and your communications center, command, and other responding units all know what your manpower status is.

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          • #6
            I guess I don't understand either. They are the dispatch center. They dispatch you calls. Is there an SOP for amount of equipment or manpower for your area? Is it a county or local dispatch center? If there is write a letter to the Communications Supervisor. Tell them what you want on your dispatch card or screen and have them dispatch it.

            In the area we respond the recommended dispatch for a dwelling is 2 Engines, 1 Ladder. The dispatch in my town for the same call is 3 Engines and 1 Support Piece (Ladder or Rescue). I have alot row homes in my first due and would rather have a larger response. For buildings the recommended dispatch for a dwelling is 3 Engines, 1 Ladder. The dispatch in my town for the same call is 4 Engines and 2 Ladders and 1 Rescue.

            The apparatus responding will sign on radio with their manning, ex... E-52 responding with 4. This allows the OIC count his manpower or at least be aware of his manpower.
            The apparatus does not respond with less than 4 until after scratch time. They must contact the OIC to verify they should respond with less than normal manning.
            There is no E-52 responding with minimum men. To me minimum manning is 1, that's the minimum people that are needed to make the piece move a driver.

            [This message has been edited by CHIEF500 (edited 02-05-2001).]

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            • #7
              To clarify,

              On a single family dwelling box,
              3-engines
              1-Truck
              1-Heavy Rescue
              1-BLS AMBO

              When we respond we are requesting that we do as any other progressive county does and respond with the level of staffing is on the unit.

              Our county level EMA (?) and 911 Co-ordinator does not see the need or the benefits.

              The depts in the county are trying to convince them of the advantages of this, they feel that it will only be an added work load for their already overworked dispatchers (HA HA).

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              • #8
                Dispatch has a chart of what to send on calls and that is all they need to know. If a unit is busy then they send the next backup unit. But we have minimum maning and that is 3 personel per pumper and ladder, 2 on rescue and 2 on Hazmat. At no time will a unit be with less then minimum. Overtime will be called in. But to answer the need for dispatch to know how many ff are on a truck, it has no barring on what is dispatched. If an incedent needs more manpoer then the deputy chief will tell dispatch who to sent.

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                • #9
                  Uhhh??............

                  Originally posted by firedog159 View Post
                  Dispatch has a chart of what to send on calls and that is all they need to know. If a unit is busy then they send the next backup unit. But we have minimum maning and that is 3 personel per pumper and ladder, 2 on rescue and 2 on Hazmat. At no time will a unit be with less then minimum. Overtime will be called in. But to answer the need for dispatch to know how many ff are on a truck, it has no barring on what is dispatched. If an incedent needs more manpoer then the deputy chief will tell dispatch who to sent.

                  You do realize that you were the First Person to comment on this thread in NINE YEARS, right??.......
                  Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                  In memory of
                  Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                  Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                  IACOJ Budget Analyst

                  I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                  www.gdvfd18.com

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hwoods View Post
                    You do realize that you were the First Person to comment on this thread in NINE YEARS, right??.......
                    Must be the day to resurrect old threads. Now where is that Lairdsville thing again........

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hwoods View Post
                      You do realize that you were the First Person to comment on this thread in NINE YEARS, right??.......

                      Don't you like it when someone with nothing to do but go back long ago and open a dead thread and try to put life back in it!


                      Harve, back them most fire companies were operating with 5 members and having a good time. Now days with the bean counters and lack of funds from the federal and states levels, you are lucky to have three or four on a ride.
                      Stay Safe and Well Out There....

                      Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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