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3/4 boots vs bunker pants

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  • Bill
    Guest replied
    I have worn long coats and 3/4 boots and turnout pants. I would never go back to 3/4 boots. The extra protection is the reason. Like was said in a earlier post we are arriving at fires before flashover most of the time. Many of the fires we respond to are in confined spaces. With the construction industry against us because of lightweight truss construction in roofs and floors we need the protection. I will acknowledge that change is difficult but we can all adapt if we have a open mind.

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  • nsfirechap
    Guest replied
    Having worked in both "day boots" and bunker pants I'll stick with the bunker pants, sure things have changed over the years but I think for the better.

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  • E_man9RFD
    Guest replied
    Refer to NFPA 1500. To be compliant, you can't wear 3/4 boots any longer.

    ------------------
    AAD
    Eng. Co. 9
    RFD

    "In all of us there are heroes... speak to them and they will come forth."

    "In order for us to achieve all that is demanded of us, we must regard ourselves as greater than we are."

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  • RS225
    Guest replied
    Well i asked my cheif (20 years under the belt)and he said he remembers the long boots and he prefers bunker pants less burns, scrapes, and easier to keep track of.

    ......fire fetish???.....damn right

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  • PaulChristenson
    Guest replied
    Try searching in the 3/4 boots and long coats...crawling on ones hands and knees is much easier in bunker pants :-)

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  • TOMDFIREMAN
    Guest replied
    well in my dept we have guys use both we have some guys that worked the city of chicago and thats the way they were taught
    but personnally i use both i have my 3/4 inside my bunker pants and when i get a call i pull up the boots and then my pants it gives me double protection my lt i work with did the same thing and it works it keeps my uniform pants dry it works well too

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  • fireman14us
    Guest replied
    I think it was on the show Code Red last week that I saw a video of a Chicago fireman that was caught in a flashover. He dove out the window onto the ladder, with his gear steaming. But his hip-boots were pulled up, and he didn't get burnt.

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  • ceili
    Guest replied
    Here in San Antonio we switched to full bunkers several years ago. We had the same arguments against full PPE. So far we have not had anyone die of heat stoke. We did adjust tactics to provide more manpower as well as set up re-hab criteria before you can be released to fight more fire. We have not looked back nor do we long for the pull-ups.

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  • John_Ford
    Guest replied
    Started in 3/4's and long coats. Pre SCBA too and I'm not braggin. walked out of too many buildings with my boots filled to the top with water. First guy to buy bunkers in my co. I still have 3/4's size 13 dontcha know. Basements and flooding conditions. Went through a floor once, again not bragging. If I had worn 3/4's and a long coat, I would have been burned. Sorry I'll deal with the heat, just have to slow down a little and watch your brothers and sisters to make sure they aren't burning themselves out. Saith this old dog.

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  • FRED
    Guest replied
    I sat down for awhile and thought about this question for awhile before I wrote. Although it is a bit long I think that a discussion on this topic requires more than just a "two paragraph" thought


    I personally wore 3/4's only a handful of times in my former dept. There was a noticeable difference in heat build-up and stress.

    I will not pretend to be an expert or have all the answers however I can see benefits for both sides of the argument.

    I belive that what Boston and Chicago are doing is the smart way to tackle the issue. They are both evaluating the Bunker gear, before purchasing it in Chicago's case and in Boston's Re-evaluating after years of data have been obtained.

    It would be nice if the problem was just burns but reality is that it is not. There are other mitigating circumstances that are effecting the studies...heat stress, heart attacks ect.

    There are those who would say that they are only sticking with the 3/4's because of Tradition, Using "tradition" in that sense makes it sound like a bad thing...Tradition is not something that is done "just because that is the way it has always been done" There are reasons that certain practices are repeated...because they work! Thus it becomes standard practice or..."traditional"

    It makes more sense for a Dept. to evaluate the gear on their own than to take to word from some dealer.

    Yes, FDNY did evaluate the gear before implementing it, however no test program can always fully evaluate all possible events that will be encountered. One must remember that in all of these Depts there are major political and financial issues that affect the decision process.
    There has been some (the UFA and UFOA) in the FDNY who have spoken of its limitations after the recent cases of LODD's.
    The Dept of course is going to support the gear...The city spent millions to outfit the FDNY, do you think that it is wise for the commissioner of the FDNY(who is a political appointment) to come out and say "We were wrong...we shouldn't have bought all this stuff!" I also don't think that it is beyond the realm of probabilities that Morning Pride had thrown in some incentives to sweeten the deal.

    There are also many members who wish they could go back to the 3/4's. On the flip side there are many who like the new pants.(especially engine guy's)

    I would like to think that's why Boston left it up in the meantime to the men themselves to decide what they would wear...After all that's what the stuff is called, isn't it....PPE--PERSONAL Protective Equipment.

    Overall I think we all should look to see what the results of the BFD and CFD's studies are. See what the reasons behind their decisions are. If those same reasons apply to your dept. perhaps one should look at his dept if they are needed there. These larger Depts. can be an asset for the smaller ones that don't have the $$$ to properly evaluate such issues. This information will be of more value than that from a dealer who is out to make $$$.

    Those are just my thoughts I would also like to hear what others think on this issue. Until then I will still be wearing my bunkers and waiting for their results.

    Two cents from a fireman.

    [This message has been edited by FRED (edited 02-10-2001).]

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  • Firelover
    Guest replied
    My department had an old pair, but this was way before my time. I'm bunker pants and if I was given the choice I would probably go with Pants anyways.

    ------------------
    Joel

    If you sent us to HELL, WE'D PUT IT OUT!!

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  • FireLt1951
    Guest replied
    Most departments now are going to a system that only allows the interior attack crew to be in a heated area for 15-20 minutes and then they will switch crews. This allows the original attack team to go outside and cool themselves off. This system has helped to reduce heat stress related complications.The problem here is that in some departments staffing levels sometimes do not allow for this. Irregaurdless of that, the bunker pants offer better protection overall.If you feel the stress from heat inform your officer that you must leave the area.Tis better to leave and let others continue than to suffer the effects of heat stress related problems.

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  • Halligan84
    Guest replied
    Allhands,

    I don't think your backwards for wanting to reduce stress related injuries, but lets look at the causes before reducing our protection. I'm curious if I missed something or what, but did Boston do a study or is this the study?... FDNY recently came out and said the PPE was necessary and they would look for other ways to combat stress. Another question is, how do Phoenix, Houston and LA.. places that deal with much more heat than we do deal with it? Differences in fitness? response policies? Rehab? All need answers.

    Leave a comment:


  • allhands
    Guest replied
    To Everyone: I know you think I am backwards in my thinking but if you look at the most recent finding from Boston you will see that the bunker pants and coats are causing more injuries than they are preventing.A second degree burn on the thigh or whatever is far better than a heat stress induced heart attack or stroke. We all have the same job to do, protect life and save property. Lets look at all the facts before we end up killing ourselves in the long term from the cumulative effects of these garments that the manufacturers push as the standard.

    Leave a comment:


  • fireeater650
    Guest replied
    i think any male firefighter would agree, 3/4 boots leave your most important part unprotected.........your crotch.

    [This message has been edited by fireeater650 (edited 02-06-2001).]

    Leave a comment:

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