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  • #16
    SGT DAVE: Personally I believe you too be correct when you say that these guys were out of line, but why would you single out the department. I'm sure that this could have been discussed without using names. The Detroit fire department has enough problems already without this coming to the surface. I think that kicking someone when they are already down is like punching below the belt. As for the uniform not all FireFighters wear it with pride, and that is sad, but as always there will be a few who forget the respect and admiration that is given to those of us who are firefighters.
    P.S. I wouldn't think that kicking someone's *** especially a fellow firefighter would gain any respect, even in your own department!!

    Comment


    • #17
      A lot of side arguments have developed here, but the main point was the behavior of firefighters in uniform. What department they are from, whether they are paid or volunteer are irrlevant.

      I would agree that in the future posts such as this should probably leave that sort of detail out.

      The main point is that individuals were out there displaying unnaceptable behavior in uniform.

      Did they have reason to be out there celebrating or commisserating? Yes, I'm sure they did - but in the future it would be in their best interest to use common sense and not behave in uniform any differently than you would on duty.

      In most departments I know of drinking in uniform or displaying such behavior would be grounds for dismissal (conduct unbecoming...).


      ------------------
      Susan Bednar
      Captain - Forsyth Rescue Squad
      North Carolina Task Force 1

      Comment


      • #18
        SGTDAVE,
        I am embarrassed for you and every firefighter across the nation for the terrible behavior of those gentlemen. This could have been a good topic if the Dept. name was left out.

        You never know SGTDAVE's dept. could be next.

        Comment


        • #19
          firehat87 posted 01-27-2001 12:35 AM
          "I would've reported them, but judging from what I hear about Detroit, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference."
          I DON'T KNOW HIM BUT,THIS STATEMENT WAS MADE BY A GUY THAT NEVER WENT DOWN A HALLWAY. BECAUSE IF HE HAD,HE WOULD NOT MAKE COMMENTS LIKE THIS...

          ------------------
          STAY SAFE,STAY LOW

          [This message has been edited by DOG 4035 (edited 01-29-2001).]

          Comment


          • #20
            What these firemen did was wrong--both for public drunkeness in uniform and yelling rude remarks to the public. It's a bad thing that has happened, and is unacceptable (I'm sure even in Detroit).

            I understand Sgtdave's feelings. I would've been upset also. But that is no reason for anyone to attack any department. That is probably why FireLT1951 was so defensive at first. Wouldn't any of you do the same thing if your department was specifically attacked?
            And he is right in some of his response. We all have a tendency to judge or throw our two cents in before we attempt to think about what it's like to be in the other's shoes. Detroit isn't the only department where firefighters deal with people who don't care, or even at times try to harm them for no reason. I think this too would make any of us cold towards the public if we experienced the same things. I'm not saying that it's right. But that's the way it is in a lot of places.

            BucksEng91, I believe there must be a miscommunication. Nowhere in this thread have I read any insult towards volunteer firefighters. I think the reason that the topic always becomes an issue is because some people have trouble letting a little comment go without a response, or they misconceive something innocent as an insult. I have no problem with vollies--in fact I used to be one and I respect them. And I'm sure many of the rest of us do to. You know who you are and what you are capable of. Be secure with that and ease up a little.

            As for the effect of of an LODD on all firemen, I wish I could agree. Unfortunately there are many departments around where the firemen don't look at the job as a calling or its members as part of a brotherhood. I wish you were right.

            Co11FireGal, you make an interesting point. I would've never thought of doing that. Thank you for trying to turn something so negative into something positive. I have learned something from you today.

            As for the group of firemen that have caused this thread to come about, the only thing we can hope for is that they are reading this thread and realize their mistake and change their ways. Otherwise, there is nothing else we can do about it.


            ------------------
            I LOVE THIS JOB!

            Comment


            • #21
              I did not really intend to condone what these firefighters did. I acted out of emotion at the consistent attacks on the Detroit Fire Dept as a whole. SgtDave should have read the name tags and written a letter to the commissioner. These individuals would have been taken down on charges and given a suspension or reduction in rank, all he would have to do is testify at the trial board. Members have been disiplined for a lot less. The members of the D.F.D. are a proud and dedicated bunch. To attack an entire dept (1380 F.F.) for the actions of a few is uncalled for. I hope you accept my apologies for letting my emotions get to me. Hey Dog, how you doing buddy, staying low and crawling forward I bet.

              Comment


              • #22
                To Gill -

                No miscommunication here. In FireLt1951's first post, he says, "Hey SgtDave are what department do you work for. i noticed you didn't put it in your profile are you a volly or paid proffessional." I think *you* missed something, Gill, when you read through this forum. My point is this - ultimately, we're talking about dead firefighters. What the H*LL does the old and tired 'paid vs. volunteer' debate have in this forum? Simple and obvious: FireLt1951 is using the word 'vollie' as a perjorative. And, regardless of what you think, I don't believe (and I think a lot of people would back me up on this) that dressing up in your uniform, getting completely faced in public, and screaming insults at women is an acceptable way for ANYBODY to honor dead firefighters. I don't care who you are, what department you come from (really, I couldn't care less that this involved Detroit firefighters - I'm not blaming this on Detroit as a whole), or how a LODD "effects" you (as FireLt1951 says). Do it in private. Disgracing your uniform, your department, and your profession is a slap in the face to heroes who have died in the line of duty. Anyone who thinks that it's somehow OK to act like this *anywhere*, let alone at a memorial service for firefighters, has some serious thinking and soul searching to do.

                ------------------
                J. Black

                The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hey Guys -n- Gals
                  I'm not going to say anything about the Detroit Fire Department or any other department because after all, we're all in this job for the same thing. Let me say just this. If ANY of our brothers acted like this
                  I would have a problem with it. Up here in CT im sure things like this happen all the time so in no way am I going to pretend or project the image that I or any of our brothers are perfect. But what those firefighters have done was basically made Departments everywhere look bad, but sometimes people get carried away so i just say let it go..Its not worth causing a Paid vs. Volunteer fight, or any fight amongst brothers and sisters, its just not worth it. I must agree they were out of hand but i just think that we should live and forget about what happened, becuase like i said before we're all in this for the same thing.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    To BucksEng91,

                    I beg your pardon, but I must disagree once again. I often look at the profiles out of curiosity. Sometimes peoples' profiles give me a better idea of where they are coming from. Did it occur to you that this is what FireLt1951 was doing?

                    Secondly, perhaps YOU missed something when you read through the posts. I said what those firemen did was wrong. So even though you come across as if my opinion doesn't matter--I agree with you--what they did was unacceptable. Go back and read my post and you'll see that.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Gill -

                      No disrepect intended, so I hope none is taken, but I still fail to see what FireLt1951's comments have to do with anything in this forum. Asking someone whether they're paid or vollie when you're a paid guy and have a bone to pick with them can only mean one thing - that you're disparaging volunteers. That has no place here. And I still find it particularly distasteful that it was brought up in the context of a memorial service for LODDs. FireLt1951 goes on to basically tell SgtDave that he's less of a firefighter than guys that work in the "ghetto city" (his words, not mine) of Detroit. Go back and read FireLt1951's original post. The disparagement is clear. Instead of questioning SgtDave's abilities as a firefighter, or attempting to ignite another of those stupid paid vs. volunteer firefights, perhaps we could concentrate instead on the issue at hand - the frankly inexcusable behavior of several firefighters at a memorial service.

                      ------------------
                      J. Black

                      The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I have not put my two sense in so here it goes. What can i say that has not already been said I still don't know why Sgt. Dave had to post something like this in the first place weather it is about Detroit or any other city. Second i can't believe a topic like this has got so many responses. I think that other topics are more important than drunk Firefighters anywhere in the country.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          WELL I DISAGREE I THINK IT IS GREAT THAT POSTS LIKE THIS ARE MADE. SURE IT MAY MAKE DETROIT F.D. SOUND LIKE ONE OF THOSE JACKASS SHOWS.
                          BUT, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY IT SHOULD REMIND EVERYONE THAT WE ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD ACT LIKE PROFESSIONALS ON AND OFF DUTY. WITH THE WAY THE FIRE SERVICE HAS BEEN LOOKED AT IN THE PAST AND EVEN NOW, I FEEL MORONS LIKE THESE SHOULD BE FIRED.
                          BY THE WAY DOESEN'T CIVIL SERVICE LAW MENTION SOMETHING ABOUT DRINKING? I KNOW TEXAS DOES. MABEY THE DEPT. HAS A PROBLEM WITH MANAGEMENT AS WELL?
                          HONESTLY I FEEL FIREFIGHTERS SHOULD BE ALCOHOL FREE.
                          I KNOW DETROIT CAN DO BETTER.

                          JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            The topic of this is OK... HOW WE ACT IN UNIFORM, should have been the title...But when you single out 1 Department what the hell do you expect. If the Sgt felt that strong about this in the SUMMER. Why did he post this 5 to 6 months later? THE TIME FOR HIM WAS TO ACT THEN AND NOT NOW. REMEMBER WE ARE ALL BROTHERS.....

                            ------------------
                            STAY SAFE,STAY LOW

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              DetroitFire -

                              The reason why this has gained so much attention, I think, is the barrage of negative publicity which the Detroit FD has suffered over the last few months. Whether you think that such publicity was deserved or not, the fact is that it's there and it gets people talking.

                              While I think that the firefighters in question acted in a manner that disgraced their uniform, department, and profession, I agree that it was probably not necessary or helpful to emphasize their department affiliation. On the other hand, if SgtDave had not identified them, I can imagine that some people may have either 1) challenged him to come up with details about this upsetting story (believing it to be fabrication), or 2) made a disparaging remark, the likes of "must have been some wacker vollies" or "must have been some *sshole paid guys".

                              In any case, the people who have posted on here saying, "We're all brothers" are absolutely right (and sisters, too...:-D ). That's why we keep this kind of stuff in the family - if it's not your brother who's going to tell you when you're wrong, who will? It's up to fellow firefighters to maintain standards of decency, pride, and integrity.

                              ------------------
                              J. Black

                              The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by FLAME5:
                                I FEEL MORONS LIKE THESE SHOULD BE FIRED.
                                MABEY THE DEPT. HAS A PROBLEM WITH MANAGEMENT AS WELL?
                                You would have us belive you would take a persons LIVELIHOOD AWAY BECAUSE THEY MADE A MISTAKE...You may friend are way off base...YES THEY WHERE WRONG!!! BUT TO TAKE THERE JOB??? TAKE THERE JOB??? LOL
                                STOP THE MADNESS NOW...WE ARE ALL BROTHERS...PLEASE REMEMBER THAT...I WATCH OUT FOR YOU. YOU WATCH OUT FOR ME...


                                ------------------
                                STAY SAFE,STAY LOW

                                Comment

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