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Garmin Rino 120 In Emergency Service

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  • Garmin Rino 120 In Emergency Service

    Has anybody used this product in ermgency operations yet? We are thinking of giveing it a try.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  • #2
    What kind of ops are you considering? A problem I see is it operates on the frs band. That means anyone else will be on it, as opposed to our vhf band, and the command post has another radio to monitor. It does look promising though, definitely worth watching for further development.

    Comment


    • #3
      I guess my question is what type of ops?

      GPS is not accurate enough to position someone meaningfully on a fireground, and indoor use is tenous at best.

      For search & rescue use or finding coordinates for a helicopter I can see GPS having a big time use, but you could then use your fire radio to relay your coordinates.
      IACOJ Canine Officer
      20/50

      Comment


      • #4
        Sorry about that, should have been more specific but I was in a hurry.

        Wildland fire operations in rolling hills terrain and search and rescue in similar terrain.

        We already have repeater capable high band radios in all of our vehicles and a lot of hand helds, so they would not be used for a primary means of communications, they would be a GPS unit first, a radio a very distant second.

        What we did like about them is the peer to peer positioning feature.

        If the IC wants a check in, just key the transmit button once, you dont even have to talk, and all units in range would appear on his GPS display. If you have the RINO programed acrodingly, you could have B1 B2 B3 for respective brush trucks, T1 T2 for tenders, IC for the Chiefs unit, etc... If you are looking for the water tender to refill during pump and roll, you could ask the tender for a fix, he could key his RINO, and his location would pop up on your display if he was within 2 miles. The RINO will then give you basic direction finding to the water source.

        Our biggest concern is range, the positioning feature works only on the FRS frequency, .5 watts, theoriticly 2 miles.

        I own some cobra FRS radios personaly, and I have had excellent results. I have been able to talk on them from up to 3 miles away in our terrain, a mile over their 2 mile advertised limit.

        If this would apply to the RINO, then you would be able to fix locations of any unit withing 2-3 miles. This should cover 75% of initial attack on most of our wildland calls, if it goes into extended attack and you get beyond that 3 mile best case range, then you can always go back to calling in coordinates. This would be a great help to the IC in getting a feel for who is where. It may also add a measure of safety to the chaotic initial attack enviroment on a rolling wildfire.

        Another thing to consider is that you might just get a neat little tactical radio as a bonus to your GPS. If we would get our own GMRS frequency (range 5 miles) then would could have a back up tac radio to compliment our big expensive Motorolas/Bendix Kings. While not as capable, it would not be beyond the realm of reality to issue a RINO to every fire fighter. This is no possible with a 1000$ dollar radio for us, but it may be possible with a 200$ RINO. With the GMRS you have the ability to license your own frequency for your area from the FCC, and you also have voice scrambling for secure communications. A sort poor mans encryption.

        Possible Pros of the RINO approach:

        - Good GPS unit with a bonus FRS/GMRS radio
        - Position Reporting withing 2-3 miles (best case for our terrain)
        - A back up tactical radio system that could possibly be issued to every fire fighter
        - Exclusive GMRS frequency with scrambling so you can cuss and talk crap on the radio...
        - Water proof, supposidly can be submerged to 1 meter and still work
        - Inexpensive! For the cost of a midrange GPS you can get a ton of features, position reporting, and a back up radio system, all for a fraction of a single emergency style high end radio, and they are supposed to be very rugged as well!
        - Wave of the future for search and rescue. A LOT of boy scouts, outdoorsmen, etc... will be useing RINO. It would be great to have a way to easily find them when lost.
        - The FRS is fast becomeing the CB of our age. Lots of families use this raido band. If some public education was done, we could use our FRS capability to communicate with citizens in the even of a disaster. It may just save a life someday. We can always go to GMRS to get away from the FRS traffic, or even better, go back to the high band radio.
        - There are GPS navigation sytems for emergency service use, but then you are talking 3000-4000 per vehicle to equip them, with RINO you could issue them right along witht he PPE to each FF.

        Possbile Cons of the RINO approach:

        - Inadequate range for the radio feature
        - First generation technology. RINO type systems will no doubt be a future feature in emergency service. This tech will mature and likely become a standard issue device to all wildland fire fighters. Buying the RINO 120 may be jumping the gun a bit.
        - Not compatable with our high band communications.
        - Interfearance from non FD RINO users. I am not clear on this, if you can make a user group that would block out unwanted RINO position reporting. You can keep the GMRS pretty clean from what I gather.
        - Training curve. It is a new piece of technology, traing with it will be a deciding factor in its success.


        I know we are going to get 2-3 of them for testing, but I was currious if anybody has tried them already, for emergency or non emergency use.

        Thanks
        -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
        -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

        -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

        -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

        Comment


        • #5
          I also left out links:

          http://www.garmin.com/products/rino120/

          http://www.garmin.com/products/rino120/screen.html

          http://www.garmin.com/products/rino1...ionReport.html
          -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
          -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

          -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

          -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

          Comment


          • #6
            Do images work on this forum?


            ]


            Map Page
            The Rino® 120 features a detailed electronic map that shows your location, waypoints you've marked and stored, cities, streets, rivers, and more. This screen is shown with optional detail from the MapSource® Topo CD-ROM. The face icons are your contacts or other Rino users who've called you and automatically sent their position data. Each time they call, their position will be updated on your map display.
            -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
            -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

            -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

            -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

            Comment


            • #7


              Map Page on a "Goto"
              When you tell Rino to "Goto" a point, the Map Page draws a straight line to your destination. The dotted lines indicate your track log, or the path you've traveled, as well as the track log of your contacts.


              An IC could realy keep on top of locations and who was moveing where with this. Hell, you could even get a general outline of the fire buy some guess in regaurds to the paths indicated on your map.
              -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
              -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

              -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

              -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

              Comment


              • #8


                Radio Page
                From the Rino's Radio Page, you can select a channel and squelch code so you can talk with your buddies with less chance of interference from other radio users.


                Still, my biggest concern is the radio feature. I cant wait until we can get thise in a fire service high band radio...

                Then again, it will cost 5000-6000 dollars and do basicly the same thing...

                For our limited budget, this RINO may just be the way to go, its no like we are going to give up our current high band equipment, we would just be adding GPS units that happen to have FRS/GMRS radios incorporated and some other very neat features.

                Boy, I am doing a good job of talking myself into these!

                I will simply have to get few for evaluation.
                -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
                -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

                -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

                -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

                Comment


                • #9


                  OK, last image. This one IMO is worth a lot of words. You could find access points, egress points, safety zones, etc... All from some intuitive resoning and from looking at the information on that screen (add topo map for best results).

                  Maybe thats being to optimistic, but if you communicate well with your felow RINO users a lot of info would be at your fingertips.
                  -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
                  -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

                  -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

                  -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    These radio/GPS units were featured in the first episode of the History Channel TV series "Tactical to Practical". http://www.historychannel.com/global...ies&Id=8826020
                    The series which focuses on civilian products which have their roots in military technology showed wilderness Search and Rescue teams using Rino units to stay in touch with their command post while conducting a field exercise for the cameras.
                    It is true that the Rino radios are First Generation technology but it is hoped that this will catch on in the public saftey sector and result in Motorola or other manufaturer putting out a simular model.
                    Another group hoping to see this technology progress is the Ham Radio community. Already Hams like me are using a simular system called Automatic Position Reporting System (APRS) which combines a GPS receiver with our VHF radios to send out position reports and even text/packet messages through a worldwide network of satellites and ground based repeaters. At the moment the technology is not plug and play and continues to evolve as people experiment with uses for it. With APRS we are able to send out our locations to others and send and receive mesages from those stations. We also can add a laptop/notebook computer running a program named UI-View which will display and track APRS Ham Radio stations on a map in a way not unlike the technology used by Law enforcement agencies, taxi services and delivery and trucking companies.
                    For more info on APRS as used by Ham Radio Operators check out this great article at: http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/ap...reporting.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Cell, do you think it would be a good idea to go with the RINO 120, or should we wait? Would they be cost effective in your opinion?

                      On that note, we need more GPS units the way it is, so if we dont get the RINO, we will be spending 200 or so on a GPS unit (RINO or no) anyway.

                      I too hope that we see a emergency services based "RINO" soon, but I fear that the old 100% mark up rule will apply and we will be paying thousands for a hot rod RINO.

                      As things stand right now, we have some money we just raised from a fundrasier. We have our basic needs covered.

                      The department as a whole has identified GPS units as an area we need to improve upon. We dont have enough to go around, and our current units are OLD with the exception of a single Garmin GPS III.

                      We use GPS a lot here in MT, all federal agencies which we have contact with use GPS exclusively for fire reporting and dispatch. We need GPS units, no exceptions.

                      So, why not just go with the RINO?

                      We have about 5000$ pooled together from various fund raiser efforts. I have already found the RINO 120s for 200 dollars a unit. We have 30 members currently. That would be 6000$ dollars to issue a RINO to each FF. I am sure the Fire District would help us out with the remainder. Also, we havent even tried for the bulk discount or the Voly FD discount or any matching money from a grant of some sort or from local sources.

                      This would give us a handy tactical radio back up in our GPS package.

                      Damn, the more I talk about it the more convinced I am. I would realy like to see second generation tech first, but as with all of this electronic stuff, if you wait for the next best thing, you will be waiting for ever.

                      In reality, since we can do the project now, I would just as soon do it.
                      -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
                      -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

                      -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

                      -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd say start small. Buy one for each company/squad leader for now. Let everyone get used to the radios and have a little time to get hooked on them. It won't be long till some of your people just buy thier own radios and take it off thier taxes at the end of the year.
                        Here are a few links I found while googling-

                        GPS Navigator Magazine article includes the Garmin Rino Radios:
                        http://www.gpsnavigatormagazine.com/...ations_phones/

                        The rinos are recommended by the DELMARVA Search and Rescue Team-
                        http://www.delmarvasar.org/delmarvas...tml?group_id=4

                        The testimonials from the Garmin site are sure to increase sales-
                        http://www.garmin.com/products/rino120/testimonial.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I own one of these units, the newer ones are better than the original ones (there have been recalls on this unit). The radio is rather wimpy because it is on the FRS band. It is important to note the position sending only works on the FRS and not the GMRS band, and the position can only be sent every 30 seconds. The GPS part of this unit works very well, I usually have accuracy about 12 feet.

                          If you want more info, check out these forums. They’re full of GPS geeks (such as myself) and they will probably know the answer to any question you might have.

                          http://ubbx.groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?...1&f=9256035731

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If this would apply to the RINO, then you would be able to fix locations of any unit withing 2-3 miles. This should cover 75% of initial attack on most of our wildland calls,

                            LOL...if we needed 2-3 miles on a brush fire, half the state and all the TV helicopters would be out here Thank goodness for terrain, fauna, and weather...Connecticut only sees a couple hundred+ acre fires a year. That said I've seen a handful of small areas go fast

                            I see the point to the IC getting a fix on all the units automatically.

                            Maybe you could contact Garmin's marketing department and see if they're looking for any fire departments to evaluate/demo them -- even if you buy the units at cost or something. Worth a shot before paying retail especially if you haven't seen them used like that before.
                            IACOJ Canine Officer
                            20/50

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have just become interested in GPS in the last couple of weeks. There is a sport called geocaching wich is basically a internet/gps scavenger hunt. This has potential to be a good training tool and fun to boot.
                              www.geocaching.com

                              good luck

                              Comment

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