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robbing from the fire department to pay for the PD?

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  • #31
    Apparently I am not seeing the sarcasm as such, if so I apologize. I am pretty new to this whole internet deal, and as such I am learning that written text can be taken different ways. Posts appropriately edited.
    Last edited by OFD226; 10-26-2003, 06:05 PM.
    -------------------------------------
    "An aggressive interior attack does not mean just going inside to put out a fire. THAT'S just doing our job...."
    IAFF Local 55

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    • #32
      OFd..no need to apologize.

      It is hard to read the "tone" of people's posts. It has been the cause of many flame sessions here. i will not speak for george, but you will see that his heart is in the right place, he just makes us look at the issues through mirrored sunglasses of the dark side. kinda the ole tough love thing.

      Take care...keep posting


      Dave

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      • #33
        Originally posted by hfd66truck
        OFD brother...you need to relax,

        I have read more of George's posts than I have daily newspapers. I don't always agree, but I do know when he is being sarcastic. (note the rolleyes smiley at the end of the sentence.

        We, (no mouse George) The Fire Service as a whole do a terrible job of selling ourselves. period, end of story. We all know that our "downtime" is filled with both meaningful activities - training, truck checks, inspections - and meaningless - TV watching, reading newspapers, etc. The public doesn't care, either way, what we do. All they see is that there are thoose firefighters sitting around, doing nothing, and my taxes are paying for it. Are they right, no way. But we do a ****ty job of explaning our duties, and the importance of paying for protection (like paying for insurance). Now the police seem to do a better job, yet we know that some cops get a much sleep on a midnight shift as we do, they just have the ford emblem imprinted on their forehead afterwords (George,I am making a funny, do not get upset.)

        Until the Fire Service wakes up, and sells 2 in/ 2 out, NFPA 1710 and every other thing to the public, as important and necessary...we will continue to enjoy the view from the toilet bowl.

        Dave
        No offense taken. In fact, I agree.
        I can feel the love.
        PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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        • #34
          Let's Wander Off In A Different Direction....

          Speaking on Who gets the money, and for what, I noticed that the Garbagemen did not escape notice. Thinking about that, and things like OSHA, Etc. How come we got off the back step 20 - 25 years ago, and the Garbageguys are still riding it?? Stay Safe....
          Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
          In memory of
          Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
          Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

          IACOJ Budget Analyst

          I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

          www.gdvfd18.com

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          • #35
            Ya know Woods, I don't think it's actually an OSHA reg on the riding on the outside -- basically the manufacturers and NFPA just don't make that capability anymore and put ugly *** signs on your truck to tell you not to! Maybe it's one place we as a fire service did the right thing without formal regulation.

            That said, I don't get as worked up as some by the occassional "working" use of riding a truck. Yes, there's dangerous times to do it, like off-road. And there's dangerous things to do -- we read every year or so of someone falling off a truck or out of a pickup at training, and I gotta wonder a) where they goofing around or b) simply didn't hold on?

            ============

            Anyway, back on topic, I think OFD's reaction (and this isn't to slam you as an individual!) is part of a "cultural" reaction in many parts of the fire service. I guess you'd call it marketing.

            With the new figures he gave, I actually have to trim back my estimates and guess Oakland's only down about 1/4 manpower while their working fires are down 2/3rds and their run numbers overall aren't up as dramatically as many cities in that time frame (sounds like good Emergency Medical Dispatching that they don't go on every sniffle, but the opposite side of the coin it makes you look not as busy.)

            Ya know, San Francisco's called the Boston of the West Coast, I wonder if Oakland qualifies as their version of Detroit. Some cities are just screwed up politically, fiscally, etc and there's no easy solutions. Providing ALS is a good step -- that's probably helping keep their engine company numbers steady, far more people will have their lives threatened by trauma, cardiac, and diabetic issues than fires.

            Gotta keep a postive, professional message going. Yeah, it's not always easy keeping upbeat when the political B.S. is rising above your 3/4s, but ya can't sink to their level.

            "We probably need more guys 'cause we don't get as much practice today" isn't a good line. I think most of us here know exactly what you're talking about but that isn't going to play with managers or the public well.

            Are we getting ALS to our citizens we serve within 4 minutes? If not, that's a place to start looking at where staffing a few extra companies can make a difference.

            Can we show the public where we're not venting fast enough? That's tougher to sell that EMS, but see where you have hard facts to show what's going on. I don't know Oakland very well (drove through once..quickly ) so I don't know what new hazards have developed. Have to say, when I hear "Oakland" I think the guys who where real lucky there was a really big interstate to act as a fire break.

            As for the fire boat, that's where you need down-and-out working to show not only the fire need for it, but how the fire boat company also inventories haz-mats on the shore and handles planning for the myriad of emergencies -- from accidents to potential terrorism -- that come up along the shore. If they have the perception, real or not, that the fire boat firefighters just sat around and played cards all day it isn't gonna raise sympathy with managers & public.

            Gotta keep it positive. No sense in getting into a ****ing match with the cops over who gets more money...hey, we understand they have needs, but ya know, we have needs, too. Keep the message positive, keep the reasoning professional. Might not work this year, might not work next. But it's the best hope we have over time.
            IACOJ Canine Officer
            20/50

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Dalmatian90

              Ya know, San Francisco's called the Boston of the West Coast, I wonder if Oakland qualifies as their version of Detroit. Some cities are just screwed up politically, fiscally, etc and there's no easy solutions. Providing ALS is a good step -- that's probably helping keep their engine company numbers steady, far more people will have their lives threatened by trauma, cardiac, and diabetic issues than fires.
              Dal, we offered to take over the medical part of the Fire Department in our last contract( over 65% of our firefighters are certified medics). The city wanted us to continue with the exact number of companies. This was a totally insane idea and even the arbirator told the city that their idea would not work with the present number of companies available. The city by their own estimation stated that each of our 40 engines companies would run 23+ fire and medical runs a day, above what EMS would run. The city stated that that they would add absoulutely no more companies and that ladder trucks would have to take a heavier load on fire responses (lots of laughs). All this on top of wanting us to also keep up with special operations (confined space, collapse, trench, high angle rescue) and Haz-Mat. For our department to do this would be insane without the offer of more companies being involved in the deal. The city is still pis#@d at the 4 man ride. Fortuantely we have a lot of the community groups and business associations behind us and the city fathers are catching hell right now over companie closings. After 1000's of calls to the Mayor and Commissioner they have backed off. We use public relations to get the message out and so far we've done well. I hope the best for all departments suffering any type of cut back. The cops getting most of the funds is nothing new. It's been going on longer than my 30 years on the department.
              Last edited by FireLt1951; 10-27-2003, 08:47 PM.

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