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4500 psi or 2216 psi

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  • IrishLad
    replied
    Hey all,

    I would recommend the scott 4500 (30 Min.) Bottle. The Kevlar and new Carbon composite bottles are lighter weight and can be changed out between the scott 4.5 harness and the new scott airpak 50 harness.

    They might be a bit more expensive, but the reduced profile and reduced weight is going to make a big difference in your performance. The new carbon cylinders are only 6.9 lbs. empty. Imagine climbing an 80 story building wearing a ba and carrying two spares to the staging area!! Weight is a big difference.

    Don't be a cheap, when it comes to safety and modern technology. The fire service is rapidly becoming more technically advance. Not always for the better, haha.

    Leave a comment:


  • Adze39
    replied
    Re: Compressor strength

    Originally posted by LFDAC21
    The department that fills our bottles is buying a new cascade system that will fill the 45 minute and 60 bottles. Is this process for 45 and 60 minute bottles slower than for 2216psi?
    If the two systems filled at the same rate of PSI/second, then yes it would take a little longer. Are you changing the number of bottles you can fill at once? Are you going to be using an air compressor to fill the bottles or just the cascade system?

    Leave a comment:


  • LFDAC21
    replied
    Compressor strength

    The department that fills our bottles is buying a new cascade system that will fill the 45 minute and 60 bottles. Is this process for 45 and 60 minute bottles slower than for 2216psi?

    Leave a comment:


  • BVFD1983
    replied
    We damaged a Scott Carbon 2216 during training. It was on a dummy and it was dragged on the floor or something. It scuffed it all up and we cut it in half to show everyone just how thin the sides of the bottles are.

    Leave a comment:


  • sklump
    replied
    We went with 45min 4500 you can half fill them and still be the same as a 30min 2216, manufacture doesn,t matter. There are only a couple bottle builders.

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  • 4bugles
    replied
    My department switched to the 4500-30 minute bottles about a year ago. There are a lot of considerations before you make the switch. The biggest one has already been stated, can your compressor fill them. Our compressor could, it takes a while, but we can live with it because we bought a booster pump for the system. The booster pump will take a cascade bottle down to 200psi, while filling a bottle. Another thing to consider is your air powered tools. We kept a few 2216 bottles until we can replace the regulators on our chisels and other air operated equipment. One other cost item to remember is if you have the packs mounted in your seats, you will have to change out the clips.

    Our research showed that the 4500 system is a little more versatile than the 2216's. If we would ever decide to go to 45 or 60 minute bottles, all we have to do is move a strap. The carbon bottles are holding up pretty good so far. You will have to "retrain" people that they are a little more fragile than a steel bottle, so they take a little more precaution when placing them on the ground and things like that. We don't modify our trainings though, if they have to drag someone they still do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • ff7134
    replied
    We use 2216 30min for firefighting and 4500 60 min for HAZMAT.
    Our thought is you don't need to be in a fire for more than 30 minutes, or at least thats what the guy with all the bugles says.

    Leave a comment:


  • LRFireE135
    replied
    UHHHH DUH!!!

    UMMM... CAN YOU SAY DUHHHHHH!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • WTFD10
    replied
    Another advantage of high pressure packs is the smaller bottle size which makes for a reduced profile.

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  • Weruj1
    replied
    Using the MSA Extreeme SCBA since 1998 we steadily changed over the whole department over since about 2001. They are carbon fiber bottles and they are so much lighter than the old steel ones, us old people can appreciate them ALOT more than our new ones.Thye are rated at 30 minutes and seem to work well for us, they replaced ol Scott 2.2's from the 1970's era.

    Leave a comment:


  • HFDEXP777
    replied
    we just switched to the scott composite bottles. havent heard any complaints yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • LFDAC21
    replied
    More info

    We currently have 8 Scott 2.2 models. We like them a lot, but they have steel bottles and are very heavy. We are leaning toward 2216 psi so that the rest of our bottles will be compatable with the new packs. If we go to 4500 psi, only the new bottles can be used. I'd personally like to go to a 45 minute bottle for that little extra time inside, but is this really needed? Does the extra time outweigh the interoperability with our other packs?

    Leave a comment:


  • Adze39
    replied
    We started switching from 2216 to 4500/45min bottles in the mid-90's. It was in response to a house fire in which 3 FF's ran out of air searching for a child. They did make the save, but all went to the hospital for smoke inhalation. After that we decided we needed longer lasting bottles and decided to go with 45 minute bottles.

    Leave a comment:


  • volunteercareer
    replied
    The problem with carbon wrapped cylinders is that they are damaged by abrasion much, much easier. One scrape down to the carbon layer and they are condemned. It doesn't take much, dragging out a downed firefighter during a drill will do it. Remember, 80% of the strength of the cylinder is in the carbon fiber wrap (the aluminum inner shell is the other 20%. Also, the cylinders only have a life of 15 years with pressure testing every 5 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • backdraft663
    replied
    Our Department uses a few different kind of airpacks all of our new ones are 2216 MSA bottles, All of the other ones are the old ones. The MSA ones are wrapped very light, there all in our initial trucks, all the old ones are in like our other apparatus that wouldnt see a structure much where you may need to go in like our tanker.

    Leave a comment:

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