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  • Firefighters for Kerry

    This week, the IAFF kicked off its' endorsement of Senator John Kerry for President of the United States. Throughout his Senate career, Senator Kerry has been an ally of the fire fighters, and he would bring his record of support to the White House. To read why John Kerry is the choice of the IAFF, and how you can get involved in the nationwide Fire Fighters for Kerry campaign, please visit our new Election 2004 website,

    www.firefightersforkerry.org.

  • #2
    Yeah right.................Kerry for firefighters. Ask those firefighters in Boston how much easier there job got after he requested a hydrent in front of his house moved cause it "disturbed" him.

    I watched this clown change and flip flop sides for years now in the senate & MA.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Since I was old enough to pay attention to politics, the Fire Fighter Unions made alot of bad choices when it came to the presidential elections. I think they do well in the smaller elections for the Senate, HOR, Local Govt. but for some reason, they cannot get on track when it comes to the President. I cannot recall if the IAFF supported Bill Clinton or not, but since he is a Liberal, we can assume they probably did.

      I won't support Democrats simply because I like the money I make, and I don't want to give up more of it so it can be handed to people who don't have it by the government. I am working for myself and my family, not every Tom, Dick and Harriet that doesn't want to work.


      "Work Harder, Millions on Welfare are Depending on you!" - Motto of the Democratic Party.
      Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

      "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

      Comment


      • #4
        And when the nations firefighters and police become a branch of the Department of Homeland security, their collective bargaining rights will cease to be, under the republican lead executive and legislative branches of our nation.

        Not to mention the overtime we'll lose once the GOP weeds out those 7 turncoats who defeated the bill.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by E229Lt
          And when the nations firefighters and police become a branch of the Department of Homeland security, their collective bargaining rights will cease to be, under the republican lead executive and legislative branches of our nation.

          Not to mention the overtime we'll lose once the GOP weeds out those 7 turncoats who defeated the bill.
          As scare tactics go, thats the sorriest excuse I have ever seen. Nationalize the nations fire departments and police force?

          Lets see, that would require the abolishment of the current departments, and a new system that gives the federal government authority over all local laws and law enforcement, and removes the authority of all other branches of government to establish and run police and fire departments. Remember the government did not just move in and take over the companies doing private airport security, but created a whole new agency and hired most of those incompenets to continue on. (And note that was against the wishes of the republicans and forced through by the democrats, who wanted this major addition to the department of homeland security)

          Legally, I doubt it would even pass constitutional muster. Federal law enforcemnet cannot enforce local laws, thats for the local authorities. You couldn't nationalise the nations police without some major constitutional changes.

          It would double, if not triple the size of the federal government, and you actually think the republicans would be for this and democrats against.... hmm lets see who usually supports the larger federal workforce...... and what party is usually against the expansion of the federal government.....

          And the holy hell that would be raised by the city, states, and every local branch of givernment would be so overwhelming it wouldn't be even close to attemptable.

          "And when the nations firefighters and police become a branch of the Department of Homeland security", thats the funniest line I have heard in a long, long, long time, and so out of touch with reality I had to read it twice to believe I was seeing it. Is that how much out of touch with reality the union leaders are, and do they expect thier memebers to be so stupid as to believe it?

          Sad.

          Comment


          • #6
            Amen radioguy.....IAFF does alot of great things for the fire service but there backing of Gore and now Kerry are not among those services...

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, as an employee of D.H.S. I think it is a fine agency to work for. We as employees have the right to bargain collectively although many choose not to. The Federal Government has a pretty standard system of pay, benefits etc. across the board. You start out as a GS-5 Firefighter, and your base yearly is the same as a GS-5 Stock Clerk. It is the schedule that determines your OT. The Stock clerk is not working 24 on 24 off, so he makes less than the Firefighter in the long run.

              As far as OT goes, it's not guaranteed. However if you work more than 40 hours, you should always have the right to collect your time and a half wage. I do not agree with Federal Firefighters working up to 96 hours in a pay period before they begin to collect OT. As soon as they reach 80 hours, anything over that needs to be OT. It is not fair to ask someone to put in hellish hours for an employer and then deny them the right to collect what is due to them after 40 hours.

              I will say that a National Collective Bargaining bill infinges on State Rights,in my oponion, by forcing them to comply with Federal Mandates. State Law should always supercede Federal Law on Labor Issues. It is a span of control issue.

              I am not saying I agree with everything the Republicans stand for, However I do not think the Democrats benefit the average working American. My beef with them is more on social issues versus labor issues. For instance, I am for repealing welfare and closing our borders.

              Have a good day Loo.
              Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

              "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

              Comment


              • #8
                To be honest people, I don't think DHS would actually "Take Over" fire and police, rather they would take over some of the funding.

                I cannot envision a mass federalization of Fire/Resce and Law Enforcement across the country. That would be far too expensive to the average person when it comes to taxes.
                Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

                "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

                Comment


                • #9
                  radioguy please never say never...
                  Oh they can't do that...
                  can they???
                  E229Lt knows what I'm saying.
                  ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
                  NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
                  343
                  CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
                  LT. John Ginley Engine 40
                  FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
                  FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
                  FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
                  FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
                  FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
                  FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
                  FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
                  FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
                  FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

                  Charleston 9
                  "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
                  *******************CLICK HERE*****************

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by E40FDNYL35
                    radioguy please never say never...
                    Oh they can't do that...
                    can they???
                    E229Lt knows what I'm saying.
                    Well, ok lets put it this way, the chances of that actually happening are so slim I am more likely to be hit be a meteor falling from the sky as I walk down the street than ever see fire departments taken over by the DHS.

                    And I don't wear my Ben 2 walking down the street, so I am not very worried about it.....

                    As for taking over some of the funding, that too would be very, very difficult. My department is funded 100% by a local fire tax imposed by the board of directers of our department and nobody else touches it except the county who has to collect it and turn 100% over to us. They can not legally touch any of it at any other level, up to DHS, so unless they find some other source of funding to give us , and that would result in a bigger budget for us, I don't see it happening.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've watched the debates (if you can call them that) on the tube. As of this moment I have heard nothing of substance from any of the Democratic candidates. I've yet to hear any vision for the future from any of them either. The only thing I've really heard loud and clear is their TOTAL vile hatred for President Bush. I want to hear a message with substance and vision. I don't think any of the present candidates are showing any of these qualities.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A, hopefully, not to late attempt to clarify:

                        After a re-read, I can see where my statement suggested a takeover of Fire, police, et al. This ws not my intent. However, things tend to snowball in this country, as a system of bargaining and pay become established in a sector and a benifit can be seen by State and local govs. attempts can be made to adopt these patterns under the guise that the workforces are similar.

                        An excerpt from the AFGE:
                        One of the most contentious issues in the Congressional debate on the creation of the DHS related to the authority of the President to deny collective bargaining rights to employees, subdivisions and agencies engaged in national security work. President Bush used this authority early in 2002 to prevent employees of the U.S. Attorneys’ offices from organizing. Both because of this action and fears that the President would abuse this power by excluding all unions from the DHS, AFGE and its affected bargaining councils and local (the National Border Patrol Council, the National INS Council and Local 511) spearheaded an effort in Congress to limit this authority. Despite achieving success in making collective bargaining rights a central issue in the debate, the Republican take-over of the Senate in the 2002 election effectively eliminated hopes of any significant change in the President’s authority in this area. Whether President Bush chooses to exercise the power to exclude unions from all or part of the new Department is unknown at this time.
                        Read this again: deny collective bargaining rights to employees, subdivisions and agencies engaged in national security work.

                        If this takes hold I know at least ONE mayor who would consider our work and the PD's part of national security work. We, ourselves, bang the drum that we are the "Front lines of national security."

                        As for the overtime, you don't know how close that came to reality:

                        The Senate vote Wednesday to bar the Bush administration from issuing new overtime pay rules is considered a hard earned victory by the International Union of Police Associations, AFL-CIO (I.U.P.A.). This past spring, the U.S. Department of Labor announced rule changes that would re-define which American Workers would now be eligible for overtime pay.
                        Based on a study by the I.U.P.A.'s General Counsel, Mike Leibig, more than 200,000 police officers are at risk of losing their overtime pay while being forced to work extra hours for no pay or inadequate compensation. Leibig and his firm are nationally recognized experts in labor law with a string of victories in FLSA cases on behalf of police officers.
                        The 54-45 vote in the Senate breathed new life into the battle after a July attempt to block the changes was narrowly defeated by 213-210 when Republican leaders switched several votes at the last minute. With the Senate victory, the issue will be a major point of contention when the House and Senate meet to iron out their differences on the main legislation providing $137.6 billion to fund labor, education, and health programs.
                        My words were poorly picked but I think my concerns are real. there has been an active anti-labor movement in D.C. of late. I like to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

                        Yes Ray, the "They can't do that" attitude has buried us too many times before.
                        Last edited by E229Lt; 10-02-2003, 01:53 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stm4710
                          Yeah right.................Kerry for firefighters. Ask those firefighters in Boston how much easier there job got after he requested a hydrent in front of his house moved cause it "disturbed" him.

                          I watched this clown change and flip flop sides for years now in the senate & MA.
                          I am sure that one hydrant being moved had a huge effect on fire suppression in the City of Boston.

                          Since the IAFF and its executive board are in a better position to make decisions on how candidates will help us, the firefighters, I'll go with their decision to support Kerry. Also being from Massachusetts, I, personally, have never had a huge issue with any of his positions on the issues.

                          Well, as an employee of D.H.S. I think it is a fine agency to work for. We as employees have the right to bargain collectively although many choose not to. The Federal Government has a pretty standard system of pay, benefits etc. across the board. You start out as a GS-5 Firefighter, and your base yearly is the same as a GS-5 Stock Clerk. It is the schedule that determines your OT. The Stock clerk is not working 24 on 24 off, so he makes less than the Firefighter in the long run.
                          Ok so with your logic, a stock clerk, that faces the a 1 in 10,000 chance of getting killed by falling stock should be paid the same as a Firefighter, facing the odds we face? Man, if you ever want to move and run a town, come here, you will fit right in. The Federal Government also has a hidden little thing called locality pay. So your stock clerk living in Boston will make more than your firefighter living in South Carolina.

                          As far as OT goes, it's not guaranteed. However if you work more than 40 hours, you should always have the right to collect your time and a half wage. I do not agree with Federal Firefighters working up to 96 hours in a pay period before they begin to collect OT. As soon as they reach 80 hours, anything over that needs to be OT. It is not fair to ask someone to put in hellish hours for an employer and then deny them the right to collect what is due to them after 40 hours.
                          Yet less than a month ago, there was a significant push to eliminate when you would be entitled to your OT. All this under the current administration.

                          I agree with the Lieutenant and Ray. Never say never, and never say can't. The benefits that we, as Union Brothers, enjoy now, were fought for with the blood, sweat and tears of the Brothers before us. I have often felt that the "newer" guys have had it too easy. They have always enjoyed 42 work weeks with OT and health insurance, and have no idea what is like to fight for every nickle they can get. Samuel Gompers and The Boston Police Strike should be mandatory reading for all members..just to see what got you where you are!

                          Dave

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am sure that one hydrant being moved had a huge effect on fire suppression in the City of Boston.
                            Still, shows he is willing to dick around with public fire protection to meet his own needs.

                            First a hydrent,what next FIRE ACT grants?

                            Im going with Chris(Tillerman) on this,the IAFF didnt pick the right canadate.
                            I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Still, shows he is willing to dick around with public fire protection to meet his own needs.
                              OK, so you are going to base your opinion of a candidate based on this one incident, which may (or may not - not saying your lying, I just find it hard to believe) have happened. And even if it did happen, is it possible the hydrant was in a bad location? Blocked access to a driveway? Or the City moved for their own reasons? My point was that I doubt moving one hydrant compromised public safety, or made the firefighters job any harder. But this really sounds like some urban legend to me.

                              Like I said before, we elect the Executive Board of the IAFF to represent us in Washington. If they feel he is the man for the job, as far as fire issues are concerned, then who am I to argue with them. For those of you who aren't card carry members of the International, your issues are different. The International's endorsement is all about who they feel will do the best for the firefighters...period.

                              Dave
                              Last edited by hfd66truck; 10-02-2003, 09:55 PM.

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