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  • GeorgeWendtCFI
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
    If the FD can be sued

    Then I say the FD should be able to sue people who leave hair straighteners on.
    Thumbs up, buddy.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefKN
    replied
    If the FD can be sued
    for walking around my house walking up with the hoses no-one was running and I mean no-one.
    Then I say the FD should be able to sue people who leave hair straighteners on.

    Leave a comment:


  • hwoods
    replied
    Hmmm..................

    Thanks George. I shudda known.


    Next Item - FOUR ALARMS??? It wasn't anywhere around this part of the World, that's for sure.

    4 Alarms, Minimum: 16 Engines, 8 Ladder Trucks, 4 Heavy Rescues, 12 Chiefs, 4 EMS Units, Canteen, About 140 People altogether............

    Leave a comment:


  • SoloBlitz
    replied
    Originally posted by Littlered3 View Post
    The neighbor across the street is the son of a long time vet of the fire dept he video taped the entire thing,
    So, where's the video???

    On the comment about running...

    We have a saying, "If you see me running, CATCH UP!"

    Regular people run around during emergency's, FIREFIGHTERS are just to cool for that nonsense.. Besides, at least they didn't go into slow motion for you..

    Leave a comment:


  • GeorgeWendtCFI
    replied
    Originally posted by hwoods View Post
    What the heck is a "Hair Straightener"????....
    Well, take a woman whom God has blessed with naturally curly, gorgeous hair. She gets up 2 hours earlier than she has to in order to iron her hair between two small irons that are held together in a V like device. The device locks on the hair and it pulls it straight. It gets real hot. But its damn near impossible to turn on accidentally.

    Thank God for baldness.

    Leave a comment:


  • Giovanni012
    replied
    Hey, this resembles the typical responses to an incident in my country: everyone is screaming that public service is not good enough!
    By the way there is no legal guarantee that FD will be able to fight your fire, fire behaviour is ruled by fluid mechanics, not by law or by insurance, so just take it as it comes and be happy that you didn't get hurt.
    And pay respect to those that fight fire everyday.

    Leave a comment:


  • hwoods
    replied
    Huh.......

    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Couple of questions:

    5. How do you accidentally turn on a hair straightener?



    What the heck is a "Hair Straightener"????....

    Leave a comment:


  • GeorgeWendtCFI
    replied
    Couple of questions?

    1. Do you have insurance? If yes, the only possible claim you have is for your uninsured loss.

    2. Was the electric service turned off after the first fire?

    3. Was either fire investigated? Who made the determination that the hair straightener caused the first fire? What caused the second fire?

    4. Where were you when the fires started?

    5. How do you accidentally turn on a hair straightener?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cappy05
    replied
    My opinion and a lot of people are probably going to hate it but my opinion is that not everyone should be able to sue and I believe the problem comes back to the judges. They have the right to dismiss a case in the preliminary stages. Most judges know when it is a money seeker with an ambulance chasing lawyer. They could dismiss the case post-haste. But do not. Why? Because they are elected officials also. Dismissing one case can **** off 50 people but make only a few happy or relieved.

    But honestly for the welfare communities, I think you should have to pay taxes to be able to sue. They get everything for free anyway. Or whatever they receive in a settlement should go to pay for the food stamps they have received, HUD housing, the free healthcare and any taxes they should have payed over the years.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptOldTimer
    replied
    Originally posted by Littlered3 View Post
    I am also a civil servant USAF 20 years next month. Here's my question? I am just so mad right now I could and have screamed and yelled. I had a fire in my home just about a week ago. It was kind of a rare situation. My hair straightner was accidently turned on and destroyed my master bedroom. The very next day at 1200PM my neighbors called 911 because they heard a loud pop, I have 4 fire departments within 5 miles of my home. The first responders were the same ones who responded the the day prior. I also live around 3 firemen 2 of which were off duty but jumped my 6 ft fence with a garden hose. The first responders assumed (correctly) that no-one was in the home. They didn't even look. Second they were walking around my house walking up with the hoses no-one was running and I mean no-one. I have a $300,000 home or should say I did. What started out as a electrical fire in the master bedroom in which 2 off duty firemen said they had a relatively good control on, (they told the captain where the fire was and the lay out of my home, he knew it anyway from the previous day) ended up becoming a 4 alarm fire that total my home! How long once a truck has arrived and the hoses are out do they have to turn the water or foam (in my case water) on? I feel so bad about being this mad, I know these men put their lives on the line every day, but what the hell? The neighbor across the street is the son of a long time vet of the fire dept he video taped the entire thing, it is just aweful to see, but how much time should it take to get water on a fire that 2 other off duty firemen have located?

    First of all thank you for being a veteran.


    After 6 years this topic was ant food and you unearth it??

    Why did you just start a new thread and leave this to reat in peace.

    So what it your complaint? You left the appliance on which caused the fire.

    Have your insurance company rebuild your house and then get another insurance company, as the present one will drop you as a bad risk.

    Most departments are immuned from bs lawsuits. You have to prove that the members did not do their job, period. Did they respond? Did they bring the trucks? Did they in fact lay out hose lines? Did they make an appempt to contain and put out the fire?

    You say 4 alarms? Is that four trucks coming to your event or maybe 8 trucks, that would be 2 trucks per alarm.

    I for one thnk that you are not telling everything here.

    Leave a comment:


  • Catch22
    replied
    Originally posted by Littlered3 View Post
    I am also a civil servant USAF 20 years next month. Here's my question? I am just so mad right now I could and have screamed and yelled. I had a fire in my home just about a week ago. It was kind of a rare situation. My hair straightner was accidently turned on and destroyed my master bedroom. The very next day at 1200PM my neighbors called 911 because they heard a loud pop, I have 4 fire departments within 5 miles of my home. The first responders were the same ones who responded the the day prior. I also live around 3 firemen 2 of which were off duty but jumped my 6 ft fence with a garden hose. The first responders assumed (correctly) that no-one was in the home. They didn't even look. Second they were walking around my house walking up with the hoses no-one was running and I mean no-one. I have a $300,000 home or should say I did. What started out as a electrical fire in the master bedroom in which 2 off duty firemen said they had a relatively good control on, (they told the captain where the fire was and the lay out of my home, he knew it anyway from the previous day) ended up becoming a 4 alarm fire that total my home! How long once a truck has arrived and the hoses are out do they have to turn the water or foam (in my case water) on? I feel so bad about being this mad, I know these men put their lives on the line every day, but what the hell? The neighbor across the street is the son of a long time vet of the fire dept he video taped the entire thing, it is just aweful to see, but how much time should it take to get water on a fire that 2 other off duty firemen have located?
    First of all, there are no standards on how fast you have to put water on a fire, etc. That is dependant on the situation, as is much of what you're asking. There are too many variables that one has to take into account. For example, if you had a fire the day previous and portions of that area have been charred, the charred area are going to catch fire faster than if they weren't charred.

    Second, no on should be running on a fireground. It's dangerous, plain and simple, to "run" in bunker gear, let alone missing a hole or something and tripping, or missing seeing something involving the fire.

    Last, no one on here (I would hope) would critique a fire based on a civilians accounts and questions. If you want opinions, it would require either one of us being there or video from start to finish showing each and every side, plus the interior. It's not that we are sticking up for our own (maybe part of it), but you cannot properly critique something with as many variables as a fire without a LOT of information.

    Out of curiosity, if you had a fire in your master bedroom area that destroyed your bedroom, how did you have an electrical fire originate in the same area? Did you not shut the breaker off to that portion of the home? I'm surprised the electric company didn't pull and block off the meter to the entire home until the wiring was repaired to their satisfaction.

    Leave a comment:


  • Littlered3
    replied
    Question?

    I am also a civil servant USAF 20 years next month. Here's my question? I am just so mad right now I could and have screamed and yelled. I had a fire in my home just about a week ago. It was kind of a rare situation. My hair straightner was accidently turned on and destroyed my master bedroom. The very next day at 1200PM my neighbors called 911 because they heard a loud pop, I have 4 fire departments within 5 miles of my home. The first responders were the same ones who responded the the day prior. I also live around 3 firemen 2 of which were off duty but jumped my 6 ft fence with a garden hose. The first responders assumed (correctly) that no-one was in the home. They didn't even look. Second they were walking around my house walking up with the hoses no-one was running and I mean no-one. I have a $300,000 home or should say I did. What started out as a electrical fire in the master bedroom in which 2 off duty firemen said they had a relatively good control on, (they told the captain where the fire was and the lay out of my home, he knew it anyway from the previous day) ended up becoming a 4 alarm fire that total my home! How long once a truck has arrived and the hoses are out do they have to turn the water or foam (in my case water) on? I feel so bad about being this mad, I know these men put their lives on the line every day, but what the hell? The neighbor across the street is the son of a long time vet of the fire dept he video taped the entire thing, it is just aweful to see, but how much time should it take to get water on a fire that 2 other off duty firemen have located?

    Leave a comment:


  • NJFFSA16
    replied
    Another fire dept. being sued.

    NARRAGANSETT, R.I. (AP) - The New Jersey family of a University
    of Rhode Island student killed in a house fire last year is suing
    the town, claiming negligence by the fire department.
    The $10 million wrongful-death claim was filed Oct. 22 by the
    family of Jennifer Kane, a 21-year-old from Brielle, N.J. Kane died
    July 17, 2002, in an early morning fire at a house she had been
    renting near Scarborough State Beach. Her roommate, a fellow URI
    student, escaped through her bedroom window.
    The claim, which the town received on Thursday, alleges that
    firefighters were slow in responding and in subsequent rescue
    efforts.
    The suit alleges negligence that includes poor response time;
    outdated engines and equipment; inadequate fire-rescue training;
    failure to know the locations of all available hydrants, and
    failure to use proper techniques in responding to the residential
    house fire.
    Fire Chief James Cotter did not immediately return a call on
    Saturday seeking comment.

    (Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Dalmatian90
    replied
    In that example of George's, to me, the critical part was the PD decided at 3:10pm that they could wait for the 4:00pm shift to come in.

    Don't know if it was laziness, or not wanting to spend Overtime funds, or perhaps there was a good reason not reported (like the 2nd shift had officers with better skills for such an attempt, and they couldn't get in any sooner).

    Anyway...from the way the report sounds (and that's just a small part of what happened), PD simply sat on it for 50 minutes.

    I really doubt the case would've gone that far if they had made an effort to reach the body as soon as was practical instead of as soon as was convient.

    None of us are perfect, and as much as some lawyers want to jump on the slightest mistake, there's very few of us who ever score 100% on a test or Bar Exam. But do your best with thought, concern & caring and you're usually pretty safe.

    But then again, I'm just a four-legged spotted firehouse lawyer

    Leave a comment:


  • GeorgeWendtCFI
    replied
    If you think that you should be found "guilty" of "gross negligence" BEFORE a civil suity can be filed, you simply do not understand the legal process. The finding of negligence would occur during the court proceedings. That is what the court proceedings are all about.

    How about this case:

    Court allows suit against police for delay in rescue

    Palisades Parkway officers not immune in teen's fatal fall from cliff


    Thursday, October 02, 2003


    BY ROBERT SCHWANEBERG
    Star-Ledger Staff

    When 19-year-old Andrew Aversano toppled backward off a 300-foot cliff, the Palisades Interstate Parkway Police assumed no one could survive such a fall. So instead of launching an immediate rescue, they set out to recover his body.

    But when they reached him three hours later, Aversano was still breathing. The police immediately summoned the Closter Rescue Squad, which arrived in about six minutes and began setting up equipment to rappel down the cliff.

    It was too late. Aversano stopped breathing before the rescuers reached him and was pronounced dead when brought to the top of the cliff.

    Yesterday, a state appeals court ruled Aversano's family can sue the Parkway police on the theory that the officers' three-hour delay in summoning the rescue squad "caused Andrew a significant lost chance of survival."

    The court, in a divided ruling, said that while police are immune from lawsuits when properly carrying out their duties, "the very essence of the Parkway police's duty here was to protect life by promptly attempting rescue and calling for medical help for persons injured in the park."

    The dissenting judge warned the ruling could result in wild places such as Palisades Interstate Park being closed to the public.

    A lower court had dismissed the lawsuit on the ground the police have immunity.

    "We're pleased that the Appellate Division has now allowed the Aversano family to present its case at trial," said Newark lawyer Richard Ulsamer, who represents the family.

    Aversano's father, Michael, of Waldwick in Bergen County, said the ruling brought up "mixed emotions. I'm happy, but it reopens old wounds." He said Andrew was a student at the University of Albany.

    The state Attorney General's Office, which defended the Parkway police, is considering whether to appeal the decision to the state Supreme Court, according to spokesman Chuck Davis.

    According to Ulsamer and the court decision, the accident occurred on May 1, 1999, when Andrew Aversano, who had been sunbathing, got up, lost his balance and fell backward off a 300-foot cliff.

    Ulsamer said Aversano's father quickly arrived at police headquarters and "was told it was a rescue from the outset." It was not until police officers were questioned as a result of the lawsuit that the family learned otherwise, Ulsamer said.

    According to the court ruling, it is undisputed that Parkway police officers reached the top of the cliff where Aversano fell about 3:10 p.m. but decided recovery of the body could wait until the start of the 4 p.m. shift. The recovery team reached Aversano at 5:59, found him alive and called the Closter Rescue Squad and a medevac helicopter. The rescue squad and paramedics arrived about 6:05 and began the hour-and-a half descent of the cliff wall, but Aversano stopped breathing half an hour before they reached him.

    Appellate Division Judges Barbara Byrd Wecker and Joseph Lisa concluded that, while there are many situations in which the police would have immunity against a lawsuit, this was not one of them.

    "Had the Parkway police been out on other calls and unable to respond more quickly, immunity would apply," Wecker wrote. "If the police had no means of obtaining medical treatment by someone trained to reach Andrew, immunity would apply. And if the police had concluded that the danger to medical rescue personnel was too great to risk rappelling down the cliff to Andrew's aid, immunity would apply to that discretionary decision."

    "But none of those scenarios fit the facts here," Wecker added. "The police had the ability (and responsibility) to call the Closter Rescue Squad."

    Appellate Division Judge Dorothea Wefing dissented, concluding the Legislature provided "absolute immunity" against lawsuits for injuries on unimproved public lands, to keep them from being closed to the public. She said the same reasoning ought to bar lawsuits for "alleged negligence relating to failed rescue efforts in connection with the use of these recreational areas."

    Leave a comment:

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