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  • Conduct on Duty

    ok--question for the ethics squad--

    Have 2 firefighters, one who I live next door to, one a female rookie, having an affair.

    The one I live next door to has a wife and 3 kids. The female rookie just finished up a relationship with our chief (though this was on the up and up since they we're both single adults).

    Here's the problem, the 2 involved firefighters are not hiding the fact that they are carrying on like a pair of teenagers, the rest of us are kind of p-o'ed that they are doing this stuff in the public eye, morale is kind of dipping and of course, I live next door to the unaware wife and kids.

    My wife is getting increasingly nervous about this-she and I don't want to get involved while at the same time, we don't want to appear as accomplices to the crime by going along with the crime(actually, many of my firefighters feel the same way at the firehouse).

    Also, I am an officer in this department and I do have a duty to maintain the morale and discipline of "the troops".

    Does anyone out there have some advice--

    I know it sounds like "As the Firehouse Turns" but it's becoming a problem.
    "When you are safe at home, you wish you were having an adventure-when you're having an adventure, you wish you were safe at home"

    --Thornton Wilder

  • #2
    First thing is first...

    Well first off, how does your neighbors wife look! Maybe you can assist her in some pay back if it's worth it if you know what I mean!!!
    Chris Shields
    Lieutenant / EMT
    Haz-Mat Technician
    East Syracuse Fire Dept
    Onondaga County, NY

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    • #3
      What they do off duty is not your business and as long as it does not affect their work performance you have no recourse. I would however, consider an open door meeting with then either one on one or together (since they make it obvious) and discuss your concerns in relation only to the impact they are having on the shift and department.

      I would suggest this approach in place of what signal99com suggests. I am certain (hopefully) that he was kidding.
      09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
      ------------------------------
      IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
      "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
      BMI Investigator
      ------------------------------
      The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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      • #4
        CaptStan and I agree on this one I think. First, get the two of them into a joint meeting, and 'air it out' with them, as a friend and as an Officer. Hopefully that will solve a bad situation.

        On the off duty side of it.... welll I wish I had some advice there, but only your own heart will give the answer you need for that one, I am sadly sorry to say. I think I know what I would do in that situation, but that is my own action/opinion and I am not sure it would help you for yours.

        **Looking around my desk for the hydrant spanner and duct tape.**
        If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

        "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

        "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

        Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

        impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

        IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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        • #5
          Tough call....if they are not doing anything in the station I dont see how you can even pull them in to talk with them.....As for the moral good neighbor side of the issue I dont think I would sit in my house feeling uncomfortable when you are not the one making a poor life decision....follow your heart

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          • #6
            If you're thinking of blowing the whistle... Allow me to say that absolutely no good can come from that. Being neighbors, friends and colleagues will only make that situation extremely ugly.

            However, if they are a distraction during fire department functions, I think you have grounds to talk with them. Just give them the heads up that their actions are bothering others... and ask politely for them to keep things professional while on fire department business.
            sigpic

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            • #7
              As an officer of this FD you need to have a discussion with the both of them, (and I would, if not already noticed by thr Chief is to notify he/she as well)not officially or anyhting but let them know that IT IS getting out and IT IS affecting operations at the department. I would urge them to keep whatever it is they have going to keep out of the dpeartment and to "tone down" their actions at the station. Certainly if it continues it will have to be dealt with a wee bit harsher next time.
              IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
              Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
              ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
              RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
              LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
              I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
              "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
              http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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              • #8
                I will have to agree with cozmosis on this one noting good will come from this I speak from experiance two of my friends and fellow firefighters both were engaged to be married I found out that one was sleeping with the others and blew the whistle. Everything from that day on changed I was a hated man around the fire house no one talked to me I would ride the engine in silence get off and go home. Since then they have moved on and realized I was right the one friend is happily married to the others ex and expecting a second child. Although he belongs to a neighboring company now. thanks for listening to my rant

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                • #9
                  My only word of advice would be not to talk to either or both of these people alone - you want a witness because as someone else said no good can come from this. You don't want to be a casualty.

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                  • #10
                    Ok, fess up, is this actually a question from a Fire Officer I class?

                    We could only hope...

                    First, we have the issue of the Chief. Yep, he's Chief, and he's got to recuse himself from the situation. Depending on how this goes, you may end up with having to bring in a city Human Resources person, or a town manager, or perhaps a neighboring Fire Chief to be the impartial party if things get escalated. Chief can & should know about it, but he shouldn't be the one making decisions because of his previous personal involvement -- brings up issues of whether he's jealous or vengeful.

                    I'd say two officers, like a Captain and a Lieutenant, sit them down together. Keep it professional. Look guys, what you're doing is bothering a lot of people here. It's Conduct Unbecoming. We can't and won't be your babysitters, watching you in your private time, but we sure can tell you this -- your behavior has made multiple people here uncomfortable, and if you don't start acting professionaly on duty, your truly risking getting written up for sexual harrasment due to the environment it's creating. That's your official verbal warning. On a personal note, I'd like to point out that this isn't a private home here -- if you wouldn't want your family or friends of your family seeing you behave like this out in public, it's a bad idea to keep doing it here.

                    If the behavior continues, then it's time to talk to the "impartial party" and say, look this is what's happening, this is what we said, this is what's still going on...what's the next step?
                    IACOJ Canine Officer
                    20/50

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                    • #11
                      You think it's bad now? Wait 'til the break-up and paybacks begin.

                      I, for one, would have one of the two involved moved to another station...assuming there is another station. Ask them which one will go, if they refuse, you choose. Contact personnel, get it done ASAP. This leaves all the infidelity out of the work place and out of your hands.

                      The fact that you live next door to the family makes a uncomfortable siuation for you, but should not affect your decisions in the workplace.

                      This will get worse before it gets better. Don't let it happen under your nose.

                      " Well, I guess it's lonely at the top time..."
                      HENRY BLAKE, MASH 4077

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                      • #12
                        I agree w/ Dal. Keep the chief aware, but out of the talk. Have 2 officers (so they both don't acuse you of something) and give them a talk about their behavior on duty. The FD is not a place to be doing that.

                        I'd also pull them aside outside the FD and have a talk to them unofficially. Tell them that it is making you and your wife uncomfortable and want no part of any of it. Tell them that as far as you are concerned, it's over between them and it never happened, and that you don't want to know anything at all about their relationship anymore.
                        The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
                        We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
                        IACOJ

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                        • #13
                          Well, you being an officer def puts you in a bad situation. My story is a little different. About 7 years ago I was engaged. I also worked ina single house where there were six of us. The Engineer was one of those guys everyone liked. Only thing I didnt get agree with was he was married with 2 kids and he screwed around with anything. We joked that he would screw a black snake if someone would hold its head. Well, turns out that one of the girls he was screwing around with was my fiance. It all came to a head when he came in one morning at shift change and started bragging to the offgoing shift. Well, they must like me more than him because they told me. He was transferred the next shift and I am now married to another much more wonderful woman.

                          My thoughts: This guy could be messing around with your wife next. The girl is evidentally not very moral in her life. I can say that if I was in the same situation again...I dont know what I would do. It WOULD be VERY tempting to drop an anonymous note to the guys wife. But it would be a different situation if I was the officer.

                          Any fireman who cheats...isnt worth the skin off my nutsack. And any fireman who screws around with another firemans spouse...isnt worth the hair on my a**!!!

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                          • #14
                            The way I see it, it sounds like this "chick" get's around. He may have been faithful for his entire marriage prior to this. My point, His wife has a right to know. Being an ol married guy he may not be using protection with this gal, and then I would doubt he's using it at home with his wife. Theres no telling what he may bring home to her. Is his "privacey" worth the potential health risk to his wife? How about the kids? There is no telling what STD's this girl may be draggin' around. Let's face it, there is more than disrespect going on here. Bad judgement does not even come close to what he's doing. He may be putting his whole family at jepordy for a little "tail". It's not just about morals, it's about his wife being able to know what risks she may be getting exposed to. Heaven forbid that they both contract something like AIDS, that can be fatal, and orphan thier kids because of this.

                            In fact, next time you see him, slap him upside the head for me, would ya?
                            http://www.sanantoniofire.org

                            IACOJ
                            Got Crust?

                            We lucky few, ... we band of brothers

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by E229Lt
                              You think it's bad now? Wait 'til the break-up and paybacks begin.

                              I, for one, would have one of the two involved moved to another station...assuming there is another station. Ask them which one will go, if they refuse, you choose. Contact personnel, get it done ASAP. This leaves all the infidelity out of the work place and out of your hands.

                              The fact that you live next door to the family makes a uncomfortable siuation for you, but should not affect your decisions in the workplace.

                              This will get worse before it gets better. Don't let it happen under your nose.

                              " Well, I guess it's lonely at the top time..."
                              HENRY BLAKE, MASH 4077
                              Good answer Lou, Did that come from Wayne Trigg....FDNY personel guru

                              The HENRY BLAKE comment is a scream....LOL
                              IACOJ Membership 2002
                              {15}

                              Mike IAFF

                              The beatings will continue until the morale improves

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