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  • #16
    I think you guys are being a little harsh on our new friend. After all, he's already got 12 posts. Why, he's practically a salty old veteran around here.

    I'll bet when he first started on the job, he was welcomed into the kitchen the morning of his first shift, and started telling everybody how they did things at his last place. And I'll bet things started changing in Ft. Lauderdale. Who says you need to ahng around and get the feel of place before throwing insults around, and casting dispersions?
    Omnis Cedo Domus

    www.hinckleyfd.org

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Steamer
      The one thing that you said that I'll agree with you wholeheartedly on..."Just because you don your gear, that don't make you a firefighter."

      Something else to consider: Maybe dressing up in your uniform and showing up at a memorial service or two doesn't make you a brother either. It's what's in your heart that does that. I'll vouch that each of the people that you've slandered here is a brother in every sense of the word.
      AMEN!!

      Comment


      • #18
        To "Captain 12"

        A few questions for you...

        1. Were you there at the dedication of the Memorial to the Vendome 9?

        2. Were you in Worcester on December 9th, 2001 for the memorial ceremony for the Worcester 6?

        3. Have you ever gone to the IAFF Fallen Firefighters Memorial Service in Colorado Springs?

        4. Were you in New York City marching in the pouring rain to Madison Square Garden for the FDNY Memorial in September 2002?

        5. Have you ever gone to a LODD funeral for a fallen brother?

        I don't know what "Ivory Tower" you are sitting in in Ft. Lauderdale, but it sure as hell does not give you the right to condemn the "Brotherhood" because we/they did not live up to your "expectations".

        and for the record... I can answer yes for all five of the questions I posed to you, and like my Brother Steamer, I know many of these people on this thread and these forums on a personal basis!
        ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
        Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

        Comment


        • #19
          Thank you Chief...

          Chief Billy Goldfeder
          Firehouse.com Contributing Editor


          I have been spending some time trying to get my personal thoughts together as 9-11-03 approaches-the anniversary of the murders of thousands of Americans --- but for the purpose of what WE do, as firefighters, the 343 members of the FDNY.

          In the days and months following 9/11/01, we (firefighters) all mourned in our own way-but we all mourned... as the events shocked us into action ... to do "whatever we can" to help. Many attended FDNY funerals-to show our love and support for our Brothers and Sisters in NYC. Many other firefighters rallied in their own communities to raise funds to help support the families of the lost in FDNY. We looked around and suddenly the politicians seemed to notice firefighters....most for their own personal agendas -- but we'll get to that later.

          We bought and wore t-shirts, hats, stickers and emblems with slogans such as "9-11-01: NEVER FORGET" and "FDNY-IN HONOR OF THE LOST" and other related items to display our HONOR, PRIDE and our ANGER. We even found ourselves flying the American flag more often-as we saw in all of our neighborhoods, the flags flying high. It was a bitter sweet time, as firefighters many felt "more" like firefighters-but on the other, much more important hand, firefighters were murdered and our Country was attacked.

          And so, as it always does-time marched on. And, as even a poor sighted person would see, slowly but surely, the flags started to disappear. But then-as we approached 9-11-02, the flags started to come back up again-and as a Country-and as Firefighters-in almost every community in the USA-we honored those Americans who were murdered. It seemed that our "flame" was re-ignited. We had services in parks, city halls, firehouses, local churches. mosques, synagogues and houses of worship.

          There was even a church in Ohio that placed one American flag, in a large field, for EVERY American who was murdered ... it was wonderful --- until some misguided and clueless dope from that church decided that "we should place a WHITE flag in the field as well, for each TERRORIST that died, because the terrorists families suffered "the loss of their loved one as well."

          Yeah -- I don't make this stuff up.

          Some FDNY friends who were with us that week to dedicate our 9/11 memorial went with me and we all saw it. We spoke to the "leaders" to protest our disgust, that there should be NOTHING representative of the bastards who murdered thousands of Americans in NY, Va and Pa, (not to mention the earlier attacks on Americans ... this crap didn't start on 9-11-01, folks) without exception. Their logic was the "God loves all his children and everyone, including the terrorists and their families suffered on 9-11."

          Yeah-well, God loves all his children that plays by God's rules-and for those who don't, I believe, like any Father who's child has gone astray-God cries. No one can tell me that God "loves" rapists, molesters, terrorists and murderers....not the God we were taught about and learned to believe in. The "white" terrorist flags stayed amongst the 3000 American flags, to our disgust.

          For the most part though, America properly and respectfully HONORED the lost AMERICANS who were MURDERED on 9-1-01, one year later, on 9-11-02.

          And now, as 9-11-03 approaches-things look different. A lot different-and have looked different for a long time. I won't spend a lot of your time reminding you that the politicians have, in many cases, forgotten who the FIREFIGHTERS are...the one's they so warmly hugged and posed with you following 9-11-01 ... Whats the proof?

          Just look at the budgets, the staffing and the support now. I don't have to show you, that in most cases, the AMERICAN FLAGS have disappeared ....and I don't have to tell you, that for the most part, many Americans "just wanna move on with their lives" and have an attitude that "enough is enough." Huh?!!

          But this commentary is for and about FIREFIGHTERS-so let's just talk about US for a few more seconds.

          While many Firefighters HAVE made a serious effort to make sure that America DOES NOT forget-so many other Firefighters have not. While a small group of 9-11 FAMILIES fight to insure that appropriate land is dedicated to a Memorial at the WTC site, they remain a small group. While several communities HAVE memorials dedicated to those lost on 9-11-01, so many more do not. While several communities and FIRE DEPARTMENTS have activities planned for this Thursday, the 2nd Anniversary of the attack and murders of Americans in America, so many more do not. Why?

          Many firefighters have simply forgotten.

          But lets look at some facts.

          Recently, Firehouse.com did two polls which had somewhat surprising and upsetting results. The majority of represented fire departments responding (63%) have nothing planned (moment of silence, display, etc.) in an unscientific survey on the site, of over 5,400 responses.

          READ THIS: 63% of the 5,400 FD's that responded to the poll have nothing planned to honor the memories of the MURDERED FIREFIGHTERS of FDNY on Thursday, 9-11-03. Nothing. Nadda. Squat.

          The second part showed about the same amount of Fire Departments had no permanent type of community memorial to those lost on 9/11.

          Also there doesn't seem to be as much interest in 9/11 related stories as there once was. Who knows how many will even bother reading this.

          Now what?

          Is this a "do as I say -- not as I do" situation? Do we go around with stickers on our apparatus, personal cars and anything else we can get that says 9-11 or "FDNY" on it to "appear" that we actually give a damn? If that's the case-the decals, stickers and shirts aren't worth the material they are printed on. Throw them out, rip them off, remove the emblems. There is no reason to display them....unless, like a big, fancy firehouse with poor staffing -- we only want to APPEAR to give a damn.

          Why do some FD's have services and related honorable activities planned while others do not? Odd's are-there is leadership within the ranks (official or unofficial leadership) that has taken the time to remind their members and their community to NEVER FORGET -- and they "put their money where their mouth is" and have something planned, a service, a march, a concert -- SOMETHING to honor those lost.

          Those FD's who don't? Why not? It may be due to the fact that 9-11 was a "flash in the pan" and they have "others things to worry about now" ... important stuff like their new car, the new recliners in the firehouse, a softball game -- or, as one agency said "hey -- we have a meeting that day."

          If a FD doesn't have anything planned-what does it mean for:

          The Community?
          The Fire Department?
          Their Culture ... or OUR culture ... and our future?
          It means that the community WILL forget..that the Firefighters HAVE forgotten (who ELSE will remind the community if WE don't?) and it means that OUR culture of BROTHER AND SISTERHOOD takes one more step to becoming extinct.

          What about another group? Perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT group? THE FAMILIES of those murdered on 9-11-01 ... and, again, for the purpose of this commentary-specifically, the FIREFIGHTERS' FAMILIES.

          How do WE as "America's Heroes" explain that of the nearly 3,500 FD's who responded to the simple survey, have nothing planned for 9-11-03...have no services...no memorial...nothing. WE, the one's who said "we'll always be there for them" and the one's who said "WE must NEVER FORGET?

          Be Where? Do What? Forget What?

          Some may say "We are burned out over 9/11" ... I guess that's a very personal issue to some folks. And I am not talking about FDNY folks -- who have an entirely different understanding to what happened to their FD. This is not about FDNY ... this is about the "other" FD's out there. But unless you lost a close friend or relative, how can 3,500 FD's be burned out? And these aren't 3,500 VOLUNTEER FD's or 3,500 CAREER FD's...it's a mix of all.

          Those who say that "they are too busy" or "burned out over all this 9/11 stuff" are full of crap and just too lazy to get motivated to HONOR the firefighters who were killed. Odd's are, it's the same folks who get annoyed at serious training, don't want to do equipment checks, rarely are found when "firehouse duties" must get done, cut their pinkie finger and take 15 workers comp days off, don't show up when their pagers goes off-until after the fire is out, hide when it's hose rolling time and generally are slugs that others have to cover for.

          How tough is it for you? Did 9/11 "effect" you to the point where you can't even muster a small amount of energy to show some respect and honor? Come on!! Knock it off and cut the crap. Even if a few in your FD don't want to get involved-why don't YOU take the lead? How can we let this day EVER pass by without some sort of memorial activity taking place-every year-in every commuinty-at every firehouse on 9/11-forever. There is NO excuse ... none ... simply put: "where there is a will, there is a way."

          Anyone can wear the 9/11 shirts, display the stickers and all that other stuff. But just like "anyone" can get dressed in bunker gear and APPEAR to be a firefighter-you know and I know what a FIREFIGHTER is. And one of the things we are is HONORABLE, especially when it comes to the loss of OUR OWN.

          We can "high five" and "hey brother" and all that stuff we do with and to each other all day long-but this is all about ACTIONS...NOT WORDS (or stickers, t-shirts, emblems or hats).

          We are quick to whine and bitch that the politicians have forgotten us. We are quick to get annoyed when the public doesn't support us and we are fast to react when some bosses don't take care of us. But then, when and where did we get the right to NOT REACT over time, when 343 of OUR OWN from FDNY, and the thousands of others MUST be remembered to EVERYONE in our community? When did we get a "free day off" to NOT SPEND TIME HONORING AMERICA and those who were murdered?

          We do not have that right. As we are sworn to respond when help is needed-we also took a silent "oath" to take care of one another. We all know it because we usually do ... but we have to keep the momentum to honor their memories in an endless plan, when those like "us" are lost.

          Whatever the reasons we have forgotten, knock it off. Get back in focus. REMEMBER what those bastards did to OUR Country, to Americans and especially to FDNY. REMEMBER those who responded to the Pentagon ... and those who responded in Pennsylvania. Your "Brothers and Sisters" who responded to those scenes will absolutely NEVER FORGET.

          WE must never forget-and when WE REMEMBER-we must have activities and events to insure our COMMUNITIES, current and future generations, NEVER FORGET.

          Is it too late?

          No-get your all of your Firefighters together (page them, call them or whatever it takes -- your FD probably has no trouble spreading gossip --- so use those same means to do some good ... and GET everyone in on Thursday morning, afternoon or evening) and FIND a quiet place to spend time together ... remembering.

          Maybe have a member of the Clergy lead you in prayer ... maybe do it yourselves. REMEMBER WHAT 9/11/01 FELT LIKE and pray for the souls and the families of those lost ... pray for the soldiers who are fighting for us ... right now, and PRAY for our Country-those scumbags are not done trying to break our spirits.

          And when you are done ...... start planning for next year's 9/11 memorial activity, and maybe even start planning a community memorial-so YOUR community, and YOUR DEPARTMENT NEVER, EVER FORGETS.
          ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
          NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
          343
          CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
          LT. John Ginley Engine 40
          FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
          FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
          FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
          FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
          FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
          FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
          FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
          FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
          FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

          Charleston 9
          "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
          *******************CLICK HERE*****************

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Captain12

            I am soory, that my post Hit too close to home, I guess you guys were to busy playing golf that day.

            You know what buddy, it's people like YOU that give Brotherhood and BAD NAME. Unfortunately I do NOT live in an area that would allow me to attend any of the memorial services, HOWEVER that does NOT mean that I do not think of, reflect upon, respect and remember my fallen brothers and sisters. Not just those from 9-11, but those who have made the ultimate sacrifice from the beginning. Those who have gone on before me, who have paved the way, made the mistakes that have insured my safety today, those who pioneered the fire service, those WHO DAILY PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE TO SAVE THE STUPID, THE WEAK AND THE DOWNTRODDEN, to save the ones that no one else cares about. Yet YOU come in here and lay a judgement on these very same people. You remind of the priest who would not baptise my children because I hadn't gotten married in the church, but outside in all of God's creation. I'll tell you the same thing I told him before I walked away from that particular church.......... just because I do not choose (or in this case cannot) to attend a service inside a man made building, in front of a bunch of hypocrits who only put on the appropriate face for certain occasions, but who do not live the way they preach, JUST because I choose to do my praying or worshipping (in this case mourning) outside ........ does NOT make me any less than any other person on the face of this earth. Until you have the power to read minds and know what lies in the hearts of others might I suggest that you leave the judgement to God, for it's not for you to judge that which you don't know.

            My heart aches EVERY SINGLE DAY when I think of ALL the lost brother's and sister's, it aches when I think of how senseless their deaths were, and yet you are here to tell me that I must not understand the brotherhood BECAUSE I didn't attend a memorial. Well I'm here to tell you that you don't know jack, and part of remembering is celebrating a life, crying and tears cannot EVER make a person come back, BUT taking some time to share a bit of that person with another can bring them back for that moment, and if that moment takes place on a golf course, with friends who spent many days on the links with the deceased then THAT'S WHERE THEY WILL HAVE THEIR OWN MEMORIAL, IN THEIR OWN WAY. Don't you assume to judge or know any of my brothers and sisters here, and don't YOU assume to be the end all and be all of the brotherhood, for it's YOU who perhaps needs to examine what it means to you.
            Last edited by PFire23; 09-22-2003, 11:08 PM.
            To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

            IACOJ-WOT proud

            GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Captain12

              Every time we don the gear and climb on the rig to answer the call of duty, we honor our Fallen Heroes.)

              Thats called doing your job. (we don our Gear) my brother in Law the Plumber don's his plumber uniform every day too.

              Just because you don your gear, that don't make you a firefighter.


              I am soory, that my post Hit too close to home, I guess you guys were to busy playing golf that day.
              Yeah I have seen captain cluster f*/$ don his gear getting in hurry to save more snott nosed kids in M town and let me tell you, he is a hell of a jake and someone I look up to-------granted he learns to pack hose right.
              I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

              Comment


              • #22
                Golfing? Yes we were!

                On the morning of 9/11 Our Southeastern Chiefs Association held a golf outing. It must have been one of Capt12 relatives that works for the local news, that took it upon himself to do a story about why all these fire and community officials were out playing golf instead of attending some type of remembrance ceremony. He was rebuffed by all he tried to interview. Only those that attended our states Firefighters Memorial service at our states Fierfighters Monument this past weekend knew why, as the President of the SMFCA presented a check to the Monument fund for its upkeep and renovations.
                Vintage Firefighter:
                "The older I get the braver I was!"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Captain12

                  Every time we don the gear and climb on the rig to answer the call of duty, we honor our Fallen Heroes.)

                  Thats called doing your job. (we don our Gear) my brother in Law the Plumber don's his plumber uniform every day too.

                  Just because you don your gear, that don't make you a firefighter.


                  I am soory, that my post Hit too close to home, I guess you guys were to busy playing golf that day.
                  Yeah I have seen captain cluster f*/$ don his gear getting in hurry to save more snott nosed kids in M town and let me tell you, he is a hell of a jake and someone I look up to-------granted he learns to pack hose right.
                  Last edited by stm4710; 10-22-2003, 09:50 PM.
                  I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    GRRRRRRRRRRRRR ..................I am with Gonzo on this .........where does this guy get off ?
                    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
                    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
                    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
                    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
                    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
                    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
                    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
                    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Everyone remembers and mourns in our own way. I have always chosen to do this in my own private way. On a daily basis I still pray and remember those I fought with and that died in VietNam. I do the same for every Firefighter that has given their life while serving in this honorable profession. I don't really need to attend all events related to the above mentioned hero's (although I have attended many), but they will stay in the deepest part of my soul forever and will never be forgotten. So Captain12 if this is unacceptable to you personally , I could really care less. Again, this is something very private and personal to me and I will continue to treat it in that manner. I would imagine many of us may feel the same way and remember and mourn in our own private and personal manner.
                      Last edited by FireLt1951; 09-22-2003, 08:02 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Burns my Buttt

                        Originally posted by Captain12
                        For the second year in a row the only firefighters to show up at 911 Memorial Services in our area, were the firefighters on shift.
                        Originally posted by Captain12
                        I am soory, that my post Hit too close to home, I guess you guys were to busy playing golf that day.
                        I don't know which "guys" you might be referring to in your post. If you have a problem with the "guys" in Fort Lauderdale, take it up with them. Many of the "firefighters" that have responded in this thread are the most dedicated, hard working, devoted brothers you could ever hope for. To come on here and make remarks like you have, is not acceptable. The Brotherhood is alive and doing well here, thank you!

                        Maybe you haven't been paying attention....or maybe you haven't been around these forums long enough to know.

                        We remember our own each and every year. Check the forums Captain. See what happens on the anniversary of a tragic day in firefighting. Worcester, Hackensack, Glenwood Springs, Lairdsville, Ground Hero, Osceola, Boston, Texas City, Memphis, Gloucester, Kingman...the list is long. We take time to remember, offer prayers, express our thoughts and our feelings.

                        You have no idea who we are...and how seriously we take our jobs. You have no idea, how much pain and suffering are being felt by some of the men you choose to insult. You have no idea...for how many firefighters here....9-11 will never go away; it will haunt us until the day we die.

                        You chose these forums to insult the Brotherhood. Well, you came to the right place. I suspect the Brotherhood is going to reply.
                        Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
                        Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

                        *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
                        On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I am soory, that my post Hit too close to home, I guess you guys were to busy playing golf that day.
                          In case the MIA captain12 decides to return, I would like to inform him that I was on duty that day, and I did attend a memorial service that morning.

                          I stand by my first post to this thread.

                          Who the hell are you to judge anyone's reaction to the anniversary of 9/11?
                          "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

                          IACOJ

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Thats what I am saying Duff ! Just beacuse you dont do or go to a public memorial doesnt mean you dont care or remember. This year all local ceremonies you low key events. I am sorry that Floridians or anyone else dont live up to your level of mourning or remembrance.
                            IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
                            Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
                            ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
                            RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
                            LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
                            I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
                            "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
                            http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Burns Your Butt?!!

                              Excuse me Captain A-hole, where do dou get off telling others how they should act and feel on Spetember 11. I lost my brother not two months before the 11th on the job while I was on vacation. Do you think the 11th just goes unnoticed for me? Hell no...it brings back all kinds of bad memories for me. I would not be doing this job today if it were'nt for this Brotherhood you seem to think has disappeared. I cannot even begin to thank my Brothers and Sisters at home and on these forums for thesupport they have shown me and my department. Were you in Colorado Springs in 2002 trying to get a rubbing of your loved ones name etched in a wall, but could'nt because you you were blinded by your own tears? Were you in Washington D.C. marching with all the other departments who lost someone, and seeing literally a mile of Brothers standing shoulder to shoulder and saluting as you marched past? If you did then you know how I feel. If you didn't then I pity you. Did I attend a memorial service this year? No I did not. Did I take time to reflect on the events of that day? You bet. My heart hurts twice a year, does yours?
                              IAFF

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thank You, E40FDNYL35 for a great reply.

                                I guess you were there, or maybe you lost some friends during 911 and understand truly why I am so upset regarding this matter.



                                What I feel is real odd, as I look back two years almost to this date, when three firefighters from Miami Florida refuse to ride on their fire trucks with an American flag flying on it. We had a lot of post telling what should be done to them and a lot of the posts were from the same guys that are very upset with this thread.

                                HMMMMMMMM we can tell firefighters they have to work with an American flag on their trucks and to just do their job. But now 2 years later I guess it was OK. And they were wrong to tell firefighters what or how to anything.

                                I see a double standard here…

                                CaptainGonzo:

                                Sad to say, I have been to, way to many, LODD in my career, as well as numerous services none LODD for fallen brothers or their families. Wish I had a nickel for each. I do my best to attend every service feasible to my area, and I have travel out of state to attend other service too.
                                Capt. Next time we both attend the same service, afterwards, let’s drop the white gloves and I will buy you a beer, we can both toast our fallen brothers, believe me I rather do that the were my Class A’s and E40FDNYL35 your invited to,

                                Comment

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