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    TillerMan25
    MembersZone Subscriber

  • TillerMan25
    replied
    3/4 boots are good to have when you are driving. Sometimes I will wear bunker pants when I drive but it's not too often. It is a pain in the keyster trying to drive with bunker pants on. And I would never advocate anyone driving fire apparatus with full turnout gear on. That's plain Stupid.

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  • Dalmatian90
    Forum Member

  • Dalmatian90
    replied
    Ok, preface this with Dal being cranky over a FedEx I'm desperately waiting for that keeps getting frigged up...so I'm grumpy, I'm gonna bitch, don't take it personally.

    Besides, If you have payed attention to your driver/operator classes, a roll over can be 99.999999% avoided

    Even better than paying attention in class, pay attention on the road.

    Only thing I will say off the line of this post is, if you are responding to a hazmat you should know what your wind direction is.

    Provided...
    a) You know it's a haz-mat
    b) You know where it is
    c) You have an option

    It just annoys me some of the "classroom" haz-mat "rules" that simply don't function in real life. I know many people live in flat places with road grids, but out here in hilly country with winding roads, and accidents that are sometimes given as vicinities and not addresses, you may be responding to a "Truck v. Car" and a mile before where it was reported, you come around the curve and over the hill and go "Oh Crap!"

    The stop and use binoculars is all well and good...we carry on our first-in trucks...provided you actually have sight lines, and like the scenario above, in our area you may actually be on top of the situation before you realize you have a situation. What hills, curves, and trees do in our rural area, the congestion of buildings do in urban cities. You may see smoke rolling from between building mid-block...it's not till you actually arrive you see a bizzillion placards on the truck backed up to the off-street loading dock where the smoke is coming from.

    If the rule is approach the haz-mat from upwind, well, do we even respond to any auto accidents or fires, since they all *might* be a haz-mat if the firehouse is downwind? Or do we just modify responses...in this day and age, it would be pretty easy to hook a windvane to the Computer Aided Dispatch and have alarm cards custom made based on current conditions...hehehe...imagine CAMEO intergrated with CAD...never dispatch a downwind company.

    Well Neil may have come on a bit strong, in his defense, not that he needs me to do that, we've had a lot of people who either mis-read or just didn't get what he was saying.

    He wasn't going Dinosaur, he was pointing out he has been around. Some people thought he was defending what was done because of how it used to be done, and he wasn't.

    And for Haz-Mat, I didn't read it as doing a drive-by sizeup of an overturned tractor trailer like you might do a drive-by of a house fire. I read it as in you pull up, realize someone's released a chemical, and the gear gives you some marginal protection while you accelerate out of the area.

    Whatever we respond to, you have to evaluate the situation. And that starts when you drive around your district pre-planning, and it continues the moment you come into work and wake up that day -- what's the weather like today? And it continues when the pagers go off, and it continues when you arrive on scene. Thankfully we don't protect target hazards like Abortion Clinics or Federal Courthouses (the city Neil is in does). We do have a correctional center though where someone might want to make distractions for nefarious reasons.

    Even if you normally don't wear gear driving, there's certain places that you probably should just do to a heightened chance of bad people trying to bad things. We can't prevent every secondary explosion or exposure, but we can reduce the risks. Yeah, it's just a car fire at an abortion clinic...huh, um, maybe we should all gear up and approach real cautiously in case it's something more than just a car fire at an abortion clinic.

    Think. You've never seen this exact situation before...so always think.
    Dalmatian90
    Forum Member
    Last edited by Dalmatian90; 09-23-2003, 10:04 AM.

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  • leadlo
    MembersZone Subscriber

  • leadlo
    replied
    When we had manual trannys I would pull up my left boot (that would be rubber, pre-bunker era) this got it over the seat, no hang up. We got bunker gear about the same time we got our first auto tranny and ever since then I drive with my bunker pants on. Have driven with both rubber and leather never had any trouble with either. All of our pumps are Pierce and I also sport a size 13, yes the brake and gas are close but I don't use the brake much . Our heavy rescue is a Spartan chassis got more hump in the middle than it does drivers seat. Only thing I will say off the line of this post is, if you are responding to a hazmat you should know what your wind direction is.

    Leave a comment:

  • ehs7554
    MembersZone Subscriber

  • ehs7554
    replied
    Wow, I can't believe there is such a big argument on this subject. However, it seems there are many conflicting ideas on this topic so here is my take.....opinion.
    #1 For the chemical call (brought up earlier) If I know thats what we are going on, I am not going to get that close...Remeber those Haz-Mat classes...and if I do, my turn-outs alone will not save me.
    #2 Roll-Over- Come on so I won't get cut up as bad. Besides, If you have payed attention to your driver/operator classes, a roll over can be 99.999999% avoided. Driver appropriately for the conditions and be aware of your surroundings.
    #3 I have worn my gear when it is cold or at night, and I can do it, but I am more comfortable in my uniform, especially if its really hot.
    #4 This applies mostly just to me, but I drive a quint, which typically we perform the pumper role more so than the truck company role. I don't need turn outs on to pump the truck or operate the controls.
    #5 Lastly, If I do need turn outs on when we arrive on scene, I know I can get them on in under a minute. That's a simple FireFighter I task.

    Remember Safety First. Running "HOT" doesn't always mean going as fast as you can (see#2) Do what you think is best. I am only an opinion among many. Stay safe.

    Leave a comment:

  • Weruj1
    Forum Member

  • Weruj1
    replied
    Quint1 bring up an interesting point..........I have never had a problem in our custom vehicles, but my feet are wide and in the commercial Freightliner we have the pedals are so close that it is dificult to operate.

    Leave a comment:

  • cozmosis
    Early Adopter

  • cozmosis
    replied
    Re: Wear your full gear

    Originally posted by neildonahue
    Wearing full gear, including helmet is an advantage when you have your first roll over on the way to a fire.
    So, what happens when you have a roll-over on the way to a cardiac emergency? Are you going to have full PPE on to protect you?


    If your the kind of driver having a problem driving with your gear on ,then I recommend that you move to the rear and let someone drive who has no problem driving with his gear on.
    Someone like you, I guess? (BTW, I drive with pants on at night regardless of the nature of the call. I never drive with coat on as it makes things quite cumbersome. I still consider myself a decent driver.)

    When you do have an incident where injuries occur ,whether driving or firefighting, questions will be asked if you had all your safety equipment on.
    Again, what about those medicals? Those service runs? Are you bunking out for those?

    Leave a comment:

  • quint1driver
    Forum Member

  • quint1driver
    replied
    wouldn't it depend a lot on the chassis of the apparatus you're operating? Our spartan is a total bear to drive, the doghouse is close, even without adding in all the stuff in the pants pockets. Coat? Forget it!! If you were driving something on a commercial chassis with nothing between the driver and officer, maybe you could get away with it. I know my drivers don't wear their gear enroute.

    Leave a comment:

  • Grit76
    Forum Member

  • Grit76
    replied
    The only time I ever wore a turnout coat driving is when I already had it on at a scene and needed to relocate the apparatus expeditiously.

    Same with helmets, except in the open cab days.

    Leave a comment:

  • bobsnyder
    Forum Member

  • bobsnyder
    replied
    I do see Niel's point, actually, and I think that, as a general rule, everyone should be fully geared up on just about any incident scene.

    At the same time, I have always practiced what Dal & WVFDCap advocate. Back in the days of manual transmissions, I never wore fire boots to drive. They got in the way, and I had a few near crashes as a result of boots getting hung up on things, particularly on the clutch side. Today, I almost always werar bunkers to drive, because they don't get in my way when I drive automatics, and I like to be geared up and ready for whatever I need to do when I get on scene.

    The exceptions to this are (i) tanker-only responses, where I know for sure that I'm going to be just driving water around in circles for hours (I'll still have my gear on board, just not "on bod," so to speak), and (ii) medical assists for lifting or ambulance driving (we don't actually do any of that medical stuff), for which I don't generally wear any fire gear (if the assist is for extrication, forcible entry, or similar, then it's full gear).

    Ultimately, I want the driver to get the rig there safely, and if that means no bunkers in a particular situation, then I'd rather have it that way. Still, my preference would be for people to just learn to drive with their bunkers on and get it over with.

    Leave a comment:

  • BCmdepas3280
    Forum Member

  • Ltmdepas3280
    replied
    Originally posted by Dalmatian90

    I've driven with bunkers on, and don't find them to be a problem for me. Usually I'll leave the coat off till I get on scene, but not always.
    This is our SOG " All drivers must wear there turn out gear " and in 18 years of doing this job I have yet to see any driving problems. As for chiefs not wearing the gear ,all of the on duty chiefs wear the gear to fire calls ...no gear is not an option

    Leave a comment:

  • Dalmatian90
    Forum Member

  • Dalmatian90
    replied
    Jeepers, Neil's getting beat up on.

    Whatever is the most comfortable for the driver and gets the rig to the scene safely.

    Here here.

    I've driven with bunkers on, and don't find them to be a problem for me. Usually I'll leave the coat off till I get on scene, but not always.

    Leave a comment:

  • Smoke20286
    Forum Member

  • Smoke20286
    replied
    Firstly Captain12, your Battalion chief needs to get a spell checker,

    Secondly neil, Statistically , how are you more likely to be injured? In an MVA driving to the scene, or "as soon as you step off the truck" I think the former. Having complete control of several tons of metal, equipment, and fellow firefighters travelling down the road at a fair rate of speed is in my opinion the primary duty of the driver. As I was taught when I came in the job. You are doing no one any good if you do not get there.

    Leave a comment:

  • Captain12
    MembersZone Subscriber

  • Captain12
    replied
    A.ISFFA for Driver/Engineer

    Do not ware your Bunker Gear.



    B. Your bucker Gear is very restrictive and in my opium should not be worn while driving. Your Boot either Rubber or Leather are to big and will cause you to hit the break or gas or both when you want to do the other task. So Never while you are Driving.


    C. At the seen our SOP the D/E shall were bunker pants only, for the most part (raining or very cold) he will put a coat on. And he also shall were a Helmet. Gloves are opp. depending on task.

    D. This is also an ID system for us, If you see a firefighter fully bunker out at a working fire by a truck, some officer will order him to do a job, only to find out he said I can't I am driving, just saves time. The Officer knows no coat=Driver.

    E, While he is required to not were a bunker coat while at scene he must have it close by. Not still hanging up in station. As we all know Ship may hit the fan and he maybe be needed to go in. Or a firefighter that has been working on a line may need a break and they can switch rolls and you have a new fresh firefight to attack the fire.

    Battalion Chief
    Captain12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Last edited by Captain12; 09-22-2003, 07:22 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • lutan1
    replied
    Years ago we didnt even .....
    Neil, I struggle to finish reading your post when you put lines like this in it!


    ...we just pulled our boots up. Never wore hoods for our heads, when our ears started to burn, we knew it was time to get the hell out of there.
    YYYAAAWWWWNNN!!!!!

    Hey Neil- times are changing...

    Leave a comment:

  • WVFDCap
    Senior Member

  • WVFDCap
    replied
    Whatever is the most comfortable for the driver and gets the rig to the scene safely.

    Leave a comment:

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