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  • Car Fire Training Procedures

    Does anyone have a written procedure as to how to prepare automobiles for a live training burn? I believe this is a valuable tool but I want to make sure the vehicle is safe for training. I was also wondering if this needs an EPA permit? Any help would be appreciated.

  • #2
    I was also wondering if this needs an EPA permit?

    Can't answer that for sure -- varies by state.

    Of course, having the training in an area with no neighbors, on a clear night so the smoke disipates quickly and no one can see the column...well, if a tree falls in the forest and the EPA doesn't see it, does it still kill an owl?

    #1 safety item is to remove the gas tanks. And an empty gas tank is probably worse than a full one -- now you have a vapor space to go boom.

    #2 Check the car for any unusual items, too. The shotgun shells under the seat probably won't hurt anyone, but could make you wonder what that odd sound is...

    Hay & Some Kerosene (not gasoline!) lit with a road flare can get it going well...plus a well placed PPV fan to get it roaring.

    Remember this is training. No need to rush. No need to do anything stupid.

    Have a class first, make sure everyone (especially the officers) understand how the evolutions are going to go down in advance, from the tactic's your gonna use, to who the backup team will be, to who are the attack officer, saftey officer, and ignition officer.

    I'd also make sure you consider EMS. You might not need an ambulance standing by on-scene, but it's a darn fine time to check your jump & burn kits before heading down so if somethings goes south, your not stumbling around for supplies.
    IACOJ Canine Officer
    20/50

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    • #3
      Dalmation's advice is very sound, but I would probably add the coolant system and oil, battery, etc, to the remove list. You will have a pressure buildup issue within the coolant system, and the oil and tranny fluid, etc, could at the very least leave a slick that could get you in trouble with you local environmental officer.

      Taking all the fluids out may not be 100% realistic, but it is certainly safer and cleaner. Watch for the built-in safety equipment as well. Seat belt/bumper/hatchback cylinders, airbags, etc, could all leave someone with one hell of a splitting headache.

      Is there a line or two in the NFPA live burn regs regarding vehicle burns? The live burn regs are a free download at the NFPA site.

      http://www.nfpa.org
      Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

      IACOJ

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      • #4
        Thanks for all the great help. I'm pretty sure we are squared away on what to remove, kind of wondering the best way to disable the bumpers thought maybe drilling them would be the answer. I was looking for a policy or step by step procedure to ensure all shifts get it right. Didn't think of checking under seats for possible explosive items...thanks. Unfortunately we cannot do these procedures without making sure we cover the EPA because getting caught means hefty fines and embarassing TV time. I will check the NFPA, that seems like a great place to start. Thanks!

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        • #5
          Well idk but after we were finished cutting up a car.. we just decided to torch and let communications know we were burning... i think as long as the fluids are drained and its in a safe place it should not be a problem
          Proud Member of the Prince Georges County Fire/Ems Dept

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          • #6
            All unvented, closed system pose an explosion hazard.

            Beside the bumpers and hood and trunk pistons, the A/C system, cooling system both can rupture due to pressure from being over heated. Remember they both enter the passenger compartment.

            On many older cars, high priced Freon was replaced, illegally with cheaper Propane based refrigerants used in industrial systems.

            Though very rare, the drive shaft can also rupture, a single hole drilled through it will solve this problem.

            No matter what you do to prepare the vehicle, it is still a live fire and your drill should be teaching the slow, stand-off approach which need to be used with all the new hazards in todays auto industry.

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            • #7
              Removing the shock absorbers too is a good idea as they can become missiles (some types are worse than others).
              Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

              ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

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              • #8
                most bumpers can be removed in tact I wouldn't drill them because the heat of drilling is enough to set them off. Also I would recomend removeing the fuel tank or at least filling it with water I would consult the local junk yard maybe they would donate you a car with the engine annd transmission removed that would take care of all your fluids. whatever you do do it safe!!!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dalmatian90
                  I was also wondering if this needs an EPA permit?

                  #1 safety item is to remove the gas tanks. And an empty gas tank is probably worse than a full one -- now you have a vapor space to go boom.
                  I hope I don't get jumped on for saying this but...you can try flooding out the gas tank with water when you go to prepare the car.
                  IACOJ Agitator
                  Fightin' Da Man Since '78!

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                  • #10
                    in Texas it would be illegal to burn the seat cushions.
                    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
                    IACOJ Attack

                    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

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                    • #11
                      I agree with Dal I am pretty sure that we have to remove the fuel tanks.......
                      IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
                      Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
                      ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
                      RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
                      LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
                      I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
                      "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
                      http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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