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  • LDH question....

    We recently went to LDH supply lines on all of our engines. Our LDH is the 4" plastic/rubber coated type.

    We have been having a problem with the LDH "laying itself", ie., coming out of the bed. We had two minor and one major instances of this in the last week.

    We were told that it would be "slippery"... And I am looking for a solution to solve the "problem"...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  • #2
    High velocity air is your enemy!

    Gonzo- I know of many departments that have had the same problems. Let me guess- When the engine company is traveling at high speeds (actually I guess normal speeds.....45mph???) the wind picks up the folds of hose at the front of the hosebed and "lays out the hose"?

    I know of several solutions.
    -Canvas hosebed covers
    -bungee cords stretched across the top of (at the front) of the
    hosebed
    -Velcro straps stretched across the top of (at the front) of the
    hosebed

    Placing a strap of somekind will prevent the hose from becoming airborn, yet will still allow it to lay out during the real thing.

    Also, how are you guys packing the hose? We have had LDH (5") for almost 14 years now- and the most successful method of packing it is the coupling-forward method...all of the couplings are dutched up front against the front of the hosebed. Other than that, you pack it in a standard flat lay.

    Good luck with your new venture! Having your own "portable water main" is priceless!

    FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    • #3
      Gonzo, we went to 5" LDH a while ago and the 1st engine had that problem. I believe they sorta solved it by washing the entire length to remove the "preservative" coating.

      the other engines went to cloth covered LDH.

      hope this helps.


      Tanker
      I.A.C.O.J. Firefighter/EMT-B

      "I'm gonna drill a hole in your skull and pump out all the stupidity"
      Gunny Ermey


      "Never underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Groups"


      Humpty Dumpty was pushed

      Polishing the Chrome on all the IACOJ "apparati"

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      • #4
        Couple of Rolls of hose..........

        Small Rural VFD where I have some friends (Yes, I have friends) solved the "Automatic Layout" problem by placing a couple of rolled sections of 2.5 hose on top of the LDH load, near the front of the bed. Worked for them, no cost, no modification of anything. When you start to lay out the LDH it only takes a few seconds to grab the rolls and lay them on the tailboard. Stay Safe....
        Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
        In memory of
        Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
        Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

        IACOJ Budget Analyst

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        www.gdvfd18.com

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        • #5
          We had problems with LDH "catching air" too. Couplings forward and "getting the new off" helped.

          If the hose is sliding off the rear and not just blowing out at speed, stack the folds at the tailboard end instead of alternating in and out. This probably isn't too good for the hose in the long term, but until it gets scuffed up some, the "ramp" created by the stacked folds will tend to counteract the tendency to slide out.
          ullrichk
          a.k.a.
          perfesser

          a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

          Comment


          • #6
            I have seen places that have the couplings on the folds at the front of the bed to keep them from doing that. To get the coupling off when you need it, just take some webbing and tie it just behind the coupling and losly wrap around the grab handle on the tailboard.
            No longer an explorer, but I didn't wanna lose my posts.

            IACOJ 2003

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            • #7
              Ive seen a piece of diamond plate, hinged at the front of the hose bed. Only about 3-4' long, and the width of the bed. Seemed to work for them.

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              • #8
                We actually have a problem getting our hose to come out somedays. If the hose gets wet (rain or packed wet) or if the foam tank overflows into the bed a little the whole stack gets stuck together and is really tough to get out by hand (pull at an angle to start the 1st section if this happens to you). We just do a normal flat lay, couplings where they fall, all folds on the edge of the hose bed (none overhanging, if we stagger, we stagger inboard).
                ________________________________________________
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                • #9
                  I have heard that once the "new" is worn off you should be ok. All of our rigs have canvas covers to keep weather and UV light off and havent had a problem in a very very long time. And how much are you carying Capt ? 500 feet ? 1000 ? thanks
                  IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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                  • #10
                    We carry 1800 ft. of 5" on our engine, the vast majority of which is 5 years old or older, and we still have this problem to some extent. Here are my best suggestions:

                    1. A hose bed cover (soft or hard) will take care of the problem of the load "catching wind"

                    2. Packing couplings toward the front of the truck will help keep sections from hanging up on each other or the grab bar when you lay the load, but is a wash in terms of the slippage problem. In essence, having no couplings near the back of the truck means that they can't bounce off and pull hose with them, but it also makes the load slope to the back of the truck, making slippage a little more likely.

                    3. Straps and hooks are often your best bet. If your 5" is pre-connected to a valve on the tailboard, make sure that your straps for the valve are big enough that you can also strap the hose down with the valve. In addition, strapping a small "drop load" together (maybe with some hydrant tools or adapters) and hooking it to the grab bar can secure enough of the end of the load to keep it from laying itself out.

                    Hope this helps.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      GET IT DIRTY!

                      Seriously, our hosebeds are setup so that the LDH bed tops out probably 10 or so inches below the top of the hosebed. For the most part we don't have too much trouble with the "automatic lay". Our newest engine has a piece of diamond plate at the front of the hosebed that is at a 45 degree angle. Like a spoiler on a car. Haven't had any trouble with that one either...(running to find wood now to prevent it from happening)

                      Dave

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                      • #12
                        Try a LDR (large diameter rookie). Have him sit on the hose, that should keep it in place...

                        Seriously, we had this happen once, lucky it wasent an emergency. One of the fellows was takeing an engine to the 4th of July parade. the wanted his gear on the truck just incase. He got most of it in the overstuffed compartments, but he though it would be cool to display his helmet on the hosebed... He straped it to a chunk of hose... Wind caught said helmet... auto lay of a most embarrasing caliber... helmet was "skieing" down the road attached to the hose which was rapidly laying itself... LOL

                        The helmet had to be taken out of service, as did a few sections of hose.

                        We use one of those cool spider web bungy cords, the one that has 8 or so points, spreads out like a spider. It is even in brite red so it looks kind of cool.
                        -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
                        -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

                        -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

                        -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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                        • #13
                          Mr. President......

                          Most people that have experienced this tell me that they believe it to be caused by the wind getting under the hose as they drive. The wind in combination with the residual air that is almost impossible to get out causes the hose to flip over itself and "lay out."

                          Solutions:
                          Have a cover manufactured that is about 3 feet in length and the width of the hose bed. Attach it with a heavy duty piano type hinge to the front of the hose bed. This will hold the hose down and keep the wind off. It is easly raised and secured to something with a latch or strap so it is out of the way during re-packing.

                          OR.....Use what I believe is called the "Fire Town Load"??? some one help me out if I am wrong. In this case whenever you come to a coupling you use a dutchman to change the direction of the hose and get all the couplings at the front end of the hose bed. This places all the weight on the front of the hose load and will keep it in the bed.
                          09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
                          ------------------------------
                          IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
                          "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
                          BMI Investigator
                          ------------------------------
                          The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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                          • #14
                            Speaking of the air in the hose . . .

                            New hose doesn't seem to want to lay well in the hose bed. We improvised a storz-to-shop-vac adapter (which required considerable amounts of duct tape) and sucked a new hose load flat in about 20 min. We only had to do this once.

                            If you're new to LDH, when you get ready to take up, break the LDH lay at the highest point in the lay and fold the coupling back to seal the end of the hose. Break the lay at the lowest point and the water will create a vacuum as it drains. Your LDH will look like it has been ironed flat.
                            ullrichk
                            a.k.a.
                            perfesser

                            a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              perfesser,

                              There is a commercially available set of plastic rollers that are connected via a hinge. There are also handles on both sides of the rollers so they can be held by one or two firefighters. The sections of hose are disconnected and the air and water are forced out of the hose as the rollers are placed above and below the hose and pushed down the hose. Once the rollers have reached the end of the hose, just fold the coupling over the hose to keep air out of the hose until you're ready to load it on the apparatus.

                              If you don't like the idea of the rollers, which have a bad tendency to pinch fingers, you can always roll up the hose to drain the air and water out of the hose. Once our hose is rolled, we use a commerically available "lazy susan" to rotate the hose as we load it onto the hosebed.

                              Dobber
                              BE SAFE
                              Before Everything, Stop And First Evaluate

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