K80 Tic

[SamsonFCDES]

http://www.isgfire.com/k80firecam.htm

Just looking for opinions and experiences with this TIC. I am getting one in the mail this week for demo and testing. Just thought I would start my reserch early.

The reason we are considering this camera is mostly bugetary. We can get 2 of these cameras for the price of 1 of more decked out one.

They would not have a temperture indicator for that price. They would be bare bones, just a way to see the heat and through the smoke.

Is it realy that important to have color images and temp readouts? Being able to see what you are doing seems like the most effective factor a TIC offers. There are lots of bells and wisltes out there, but are they realy worth the cost for a small VFD looking for its first TIC?

My thougts on this are:

1 We are a small department with backup being around 30 minutes away. IMO we would be more effective putting 2 basic TICs into use then 1 color display thermometer models with live video.

2 If the interior team runs into trouble and they of course are the guys with the TIC, it would be VERY beneficial to have another TIC waiting with the RIT, or with another attack team.

3 We have the many calls where 2 TICs would be much more usefull then 1 high dollar high feature unit.

4 I am willing to sacrifice some image quality for the option of haveing 2 TICS on the fireground. Two TICs of adequate image quality IMO are superior to 1 TIC of superior image quality.

After much thought and day dreaming on this subject, IMO we would be better off with 2 bare bones units then with one 16,000 unit (which if not realy the high end, but still a LARGE chunk of our budget/gratns). While we give up the bells and whistles, we gain the most desired feature of being able to have a TIC in more then one place at once, and hopefully a hight chance of haveing one at the right place at the right time.

So, what do you think of the K80TIC? Good, bad, or ugly (actualy, I would buy the ugly argument, I like the flame job )

What would you do in my situaion: No current TICs, No Backup TICs, small budget, and 1 Mutual Aid TIC 30+ minutes away.

Thanks for the input.

[Jonathan Bastian]

Re: K80 Tic

Originally posted by SamsonFCDES
http://www.isgfire.com/k80firecam.htm

Just looking for opinions and experiences with this TIC. I am getting one in the mail this week for demo and testing. Just thought I would start my reserch early.

There are a number of other threads that have addressed the issue of how to test a TI. If you just take it out of the box, look around the conference room, and say "yeah" or "nay", then you are doing a disservice to your firefighters. Research the "how to test" issue. If you can access a burn building, then do some of the tests in the kitchen. If any manufacturer says their TI can take the heat, well, crank up the kitchen oven to 300F or so and place the TI in there for 10 minutes.

Remember: There is NO organization out there (not UL, not NFPA, not OSHA, not even FTC) verifying that a manufacturer's claims of performance are valid. You NEED to verify it for yourself.

Is it realy that important to have color images and temp readouts? Being able to see what you are doing seems like the most effective factor a TIC offers. There are lots of bells and wisltes out there, but are they realy worth the cost for a small VFD looking for its first TIC?

Temp readout is very inaccurate, but it does have a few, very limited applications. Color, especially full color, has no fire ground value whatsoever. Just think of it this way: do you want your rookie trying to remember if purple is hotter or colder than green, or if white is hotter than black?

2 If the interior team runs into trouble and they of course are the guys with the TIC, it would be VERY beneficial to have another TIC waiting with the RIT, or with another attack team.

3 We have the many calls where 2 TICs would be much more usefull then 1 high dollar high feature unit.

4 I am willing to sacrifice some image quality for the option of haveing 2 TICS on the fireground. Two TICs of adequate image quality IMO are superior to 1 TIC of superior image quality.

I would argue that every fire ground should have 3 TIs, but certainly your justification for 2 is better than having only one. My two cents: you have a solid plan.

what do you think of the K80TIC? Good, bad, or ugly (actualy, I would buy the ugly argument, I like the flame job )

There are 4 manufacturers with small-format TIs: Bullard, ISG, MSA and Scott. You should compare all of them for features that are important to you, whether that is durability, training, image quality or just price. Then, you'll be in a better position to determine which one to buy.

JB
Bullard TI Training Mgr

[ff7134]

We have 3 K80's and we love them at our dept. Those things are darn near indestructible. we are looking at buying a K90 for our hazmat scene. I would suggest the transmit function it you can afford it. We have on hook up to our Chiefs truck so he can see everything its is great.

[SamsonFCDES]

Thanks for the input guys.

JB:

You make many very good points. I realy would like to be able to test out all of the compeditors and take them on some calls to test them out. We are limited in doing this by our location. We are on the eastern side of Montana. The are no TIC vendors to my knowledge for many many miles in any direction. For a TIC demo, the salesman would likely have to travel from Denver, Seattle, or some such place, a trip of 500+ miles. We have to have the vendors mail us a unit, then we play around with it for a few days and ship it back. This makes it very hard to get a good feel for the TIC in such a limited time. Hence my curiousity on this forum. I figure if you folks share you knowledge, I can make a more educated decision as to which TIC best suites our needs.

We are most familiar with the Red (can remeber the model # right now) full sized Bullard unit. Our closest neiborhing department has one. We have done interdepartment training with it on many ocasions. A very nice TIC, but a bit out of our pricerange, and a bit more cumbersome then the palm units.

As I mentioned, we have pretty much come to the conclusion that 2 bare bones units would do us a world more good then one high end uint.

We would like to test out the palm sized Bullard unit, maybe you could put me in touch with somebody who could demo it for us while we have the K80 on hand for a side to side comparision.

FF7134:

Thanks for the info. What are your impressions on this TIC in regaurds to display functionality and performance on the fire ground? Have you had any good/bad experiences with it on initial attack or any other incident? Do you have the thermometer option? What did you pay? Have you used it side by side with any other makes or models.

[Jonathan Bastian]

Originally posted by SamsonFCDES
We are most familiar with the Red (can remeber the model # right now) full sized Bullard unit. Our closest neiborhing department has one. We have done interdepartment training with it on many ocasions. A very nice TIC, but a bit out of our pricerange, and a bit more cumbersome then the palm units.

As I mentioned, we have pretty much come to the conclusion that 2 bare bones units would do us a world more good then one high end uint.

We would like to test out the palm sized Bullard unit, maybe you could put me in touch with somebody who could demo it for us while we have the K80 on hand for a side to side comparision.

The traditional red Bullard is called the TIx.

To try a T3, contact the distributor for Montana:
LN Curtis & Sons
629 So. Industrial Way
Seattle, WA 98108
Phone: 206-622-2875
Fax: 206-622-2723
Toll Free: 800-426-6633
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.lncurtis.com

or the actual Bullard salesperson is:
Barry Sloan
Phone: 1-800-227-0423 (ext. 894)
Email: [email protected]

[ff7134]

The only problem with the display is keeping all the muck and grime off but that is normal. We tested k80, Bullard T3, MSA and one other that I can't think of at 2 seperate training burns. We found that the k80 performed as well if not better that the others. and you cna't beat it for its size and ease of use. We do have the thermometer and it seems to work great. I can't remeber the exact price but I know fully decked out it was about $1000 less than a bullard. Plus the service and Reps from ISG were great.

[Rescue101]

Samson,E-mail me and I'll give you a little info that might interest you.It would give JB a heart attack if I posted it here.There is another unit,similarly priced that I think you might like as well or better.Some consideration to nearest dealer and who is going to service you should be factored in.T.C.

[Jonathan Bastian]

Originally posted by Rescue101
Samson,E-mail me and I'll give you a little info that might interest you.It would give JB a heart attack if I posted it here.There is another unit,similarly priced that I think you might like as well or better.Some consideration to nearest dealer and who is going to service you should be factored in.T.C.

C'mon, TC...do you really think I am that thin skinned?

Feel free to post any information you wish about TIs...I won't criticize your choice of brand...but I will keep you honest on features and performance

For service, I'd suggest the performance of the manufacturer is equally, if not more, important than the performance of the distributor. If the manufacturer is going to take 6 weeks to fix your TI, your distributor can't change that. Also, choosing a very durable unit upfront can solve some of those issues.

[12TruckIrons]

So just what is the cost on the K-80 anyway?