Pumper/Tankers - revised...

[kp501501]

I want to thank all who have replied to the last forum on this.

We are looking to poss. replace an old 1250/1500gpm engine with a Pumper/Tanker 2000 gallon CAFS combination. This would be a 1st due in our district on all reported fires (other than vehicle fires and grass/brush fires) and would be backed up by 2 1000/1500gpm Engines. Would be used for mutual Aid as a Tanker due to having 2 1000/1500gpm engines still on station.

Our concerns are:

the handling of such a vehicle in bad weather, snow and ice.

Driving and handling problems (500hp is alot to get going and stop), rural driveways - alot are tight.

Weight issues. - Bridges, culverts, increased static load on the bay floors??

Any incresed maintenance problems - more than a regular engine would get.


SOP's for response and fire attack are not an issue with us and this truck, ours is the safety for responses, handling and weight load.

Any one have suggestions from their experiences with these trucks, good or bad?



Thanks again

[Stuart]

We operate a 2000 gallon/1500 GPM engine tank as our 1st out attack piece.
See http://www.willingtonfire.org/apparatuspics/et113.htm

It is very stable and stops well. The only maintenance issue we have over a 'regular' truck is wearing out the rear tires a bit faster. We've had no weight or size issues at all.

The large water tank has saved our butts more than once and functions well enough as a tanker if needed.

Suggestions:
Get a secondary braking device (Jake Brake, C-Brake, Engine Brake, Telma Retarder, Transmission retarder etc.)

Get a tandem-axle rear-end. Don't try to squeeze it onto one rear axle.

Get the largest engine possible if you have any hills.

[Dalmatian90]

the handling of such a vehicle in bad weather, snow and ice.

I wouldn't think it would be much of a problem. I know some of our members who drive trucks a lot more than me complain tandem axle farm/commercial trucks are more difficult to turn in mud.

For snow & ice, get on-spot chains, and if you live where you get 8" + of snow once in a while, get a real set of chains for the occassionaly blizzard.

Driving and handling problems (500hp is alot to get going and stop), rural driveways - alot are tight.

Gotta get turning radius, curb to curbs, etc from the manufactures, take those numbers and tape measures out to places you're worried about.

Maybe you have a nearby fire department who can visit with a similiar sized truck, or maybe a local business with a similiar size truck to give these worry areas a try.

Weight issues. - Bridges, culverts, increased static load on the bay floors??

Who has engineering authority over your bridges? In my state, Connecticut, even on town roads all bridge loads are set by the State Department of Transportation. They can tell you what they legally allow on various chasiss configs on the different bridges.

Floors could be a concern, if you have a basement. If you have poured concrete in good shape, I wouldn't think it would be a big difference between a single axle with 1250gwt and a tandem with 2000gwt.

Going to a 2000 gallon tank pretty much assures you'll go to a tandem axle chassis -- and that gives you a lot more braking surface then a single. I wouldn't think 2000 gwt are really pushing design specs on chassis that could handle 2500 or 3000 gallons if you wanted to!

[hwoods]

A Couple of Points..........

Two VERY good points that have been mentioned here: 1. Tandem Axle. 40,000 pounds (20 tons) is a widely used dividing line for 1 axle/2 axle design. If you are going over 40K lbs. spec a Tandem. AND get a "tandem lock" device installed. This will allow the driver to flip a switch on the dash, and lock all 8 wheels into one solid pulling pattern, when operating on mud, snow, Etc. 2. There is, and has been for many years, a debate going between "Jake Brakes" and Retarders. We have examples of both, and I give the nod to the Jacobs Engine Brake over all other means of slowing the vehicle. Transmission retarders overheat, under hard driving conditions or in real hot weather, whereas the Jake just keeps on singing along. And (Personal Opinion Only) the jake brake is most appreciated when used with mufflers that have had most of the insides removed. Stay Safe....

[Adze39]

Yes...Jake Brakes are the way to go! And I'm not just saying that because they are in my first due over in Blue Hills (*ching ching* is that tax money I hear in my ear? )

[Adze39]

We have a 1500GPM/2000 gallon Engine Tank (as it is called in our neck of the woods in CT).

http://www.bbfd.org/pics/Apparatus/ET139_03.jpg

Not only do we have a Jake Brake, but we also have a Transmission Retarder. The rig stops on a dime. Sometimes when we are going down a hill, we actually have to step on the gas to make it all the way down the hill.

[tripperff]

One thing to keep in mind...

...is where the water sits. If the truck you are replacing is a "standard" square body engine and you go to an elliptical tank just remember all that weight sits a little higher making the truck a little top heavy. Just something to remember when you talk about how the truck handles.

[magnolia]

Why 2000 gallons versus 2500 gallons, with ISO 2500 is a magic number. Why start with Pierce, kinda insures a high proce doesn't it? Bad weather? About the same weight as a dump truck plow full of sand clearing the roads. 500 hp will make your air conditioner less effective and not move the rig any faster or quicker than a 450. You can always go with all steer and out turn an extended cap pickup truck.

Weight issues are up to you to determine no way a forum member will know. More maintenance, Sure! You'll have one a couple dozen of that engine, chassis pump combo they make that year, no one around you will know his way around it and will be on a learn while they wrench program like all customs.

Suggestions: Low attack lines, eliminate as many CAFS controls as possible, have a direct fill with check valve, if you draft have a turbo draft preconnect, lots of floods cab controlled, etc