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Fdny too white too male??

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  • SPFDRum
    replied
    Fdny too white too male??
    Only if you are unable to physically or mentally meet the requirement set forth. So being the bleeding heart liberal, I'm a victim individual you are, it's much easier to cry racism or discrimination to lower the standards. This way you can be in a job that you where not able to get in the first place, do to your own inability to pass the tests. Or put more simply-you are unqualified for.

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  • VinnieB
    replied
    Ok Dave, I understand ya' now.

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  • Dave1983
    replied
    Originally posted by VinnieB
    Don't think so dave. With a starting salary of 25K....we still don't have any problem hiring people who want the job.

    Agree, but I was speaking of young people who really arent sure what they want to do as a carrer. You dont need to recruit people that want the job, its the ones that are still undecided. There will always be people who want to work for FDNY just because its FDNY, no matter the wage.

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  • VinnieB
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave1983
    Id be willing to bet that the honor of working for FDNY means much less to kids these days then it would to you or I. They just look at $$$.
    Don't think so dave. With a starting salary of 25K....we still don't have any problem hiring people who want the job.

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  • JHR1985
    replied
    Id be willing to bet that the honor of working for FDNY means much less to kids these days then it would to you or I. They just look at $$$.

    I would gurantee that if you approached anyone in a rookie class, doesnt matter if its Oklahoma, Utah, Cali or Maine.... you will find that there is a great number who would do it at a drop of a hat. But as you say, money is a huge factor. If you examine the LA fire department, they start off making around 55k(i believe). But that is in a city where the grocery bagger makes over 10 bucks an hour. New York isnt going to be that much different. And they make less than 1/2 what a rookie in LA makes.

    The pay rate does matter alot. You can advirtise all you want but to work for FDNY, you have to want it. Your not going to get rich off of it. You have to have the desire to dig in and make the best out of it.


    And off topic, I agree with this statement... but for a whole different reason
    Personally, I don't think women belong in the firehouse
    I believe that firefighters belong in the firehouse. It should not matter what race/religion/nationality/sex a person is. If they are qualified and made it through the process, then they deserve the job.

    But when you start saying, well I dont like women in the firehouse. Or I dont like (insert minority, religion, nationality here), you are breaking it down too far. But, at the same time, no one should come in there and say "Well, I'm a (insert here) and this is what I want/deserve. Everybody is equal in the firehouse. I guess the best way to describe how I feel is a saying I heard in fire academy. I will try to clean it up for firehouse but..

    A recruit class had women, african-americans, mexicans, and whites. The chief walks in and says "I dont want to rednecks, Slur for women, slur for african-americans, and slur for mexicans. What I want is people who are firefighters. Who you are or what you are doesnt matter at the fire station. You are there to do a job. If anyone of you thinks your special or that you deserve something because of who you are, then you fit the catagory mentioned and you need to get out." This happend only once and a long time ago...

    But, I hope this gets taken the right way and not viewed as racist.

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  • VinnieB
    replied
    Originally posted by BFDNJFF
    Now ask a FDNY probie what he realy made his first year after all the OT and then you will go ooooOOOOHHH K ! lol
    WOW.."all that OT" huh? I'll tell you in my first year I made only 40K...thats including the "TONS of OT" you speak of. And the probies now...will be lucky to get 32K with the vast amount of OT that is just sooooo available.

    Thanks for a great response....your insight is truly amazing.

    Leave a comment:


  • mitllesmertz1
    replied
    Perhaps an overlooked reason explaining why some cities have a higher % of females than FDNY is right under our noses:
    FDNT DOESN"T use an exam process. It's a straight scoring system, to my understanding.
    How many other cities with high % of females used a straight "physical score +written score+veterans= final score"?
    FDNY doesn't provide an opportunity for any monkeying around with who moves on in the process, or anything vague like how well they did on the oral board.
    Many cities I know use the oral as a major component of the process, allowing people that squeek by on the written and stagger through the physical to jump up many spots on the list.

    I say good for FDNY- they don't allow any opportunity for favoritism, racism, or gender discrimination. The numbers don't lie.

    Leave a comment:


  • RspctFrmCalgary
    replied
    Id be willing to bet that the honor of working for FDNY means much less to kids these days then it would to you or I. They just look at $$$.
    I don't agree, Dave.

    Not if young men like Michael Reilly are the norm. And Mike is not the only FDNY firefighter I've heard about recently who has &/or had that quality and reason for joining the New York City Fire Department, especially since 2001.

    Leave a comment:


  • rfdlou
    replied
    FDNY recruiting in the 70s

    My perspective on the FDNY recruiting process comes as a kid growing up in Brooklyn. Looking for a job during the economic down turn in the seventies and now as a NJ. resident & volunteer firefighter for 16 years. I lived down the block from “The Fireman” (neighbors if they worked for the city were always known by job titles Joe The Cop, Tony The DSC guy, Bob from The TA) but never wanted to be one. I was never exposed to fire fighting , no family FF, no vollies in Brooklyn(except Gerritsen Beach), TV was mostly Cop shows & Emergency was LA & cornball. In NYC only ESU does rescue. (just kidding)My older brothers became cops because a detective approached on the subway & suggested taking the test & not being collage boys it kept them from the draft. So much for recruiting. You had to buy “THE CHIEF” Civil Service paper just to find out about tests. No one came to my school recruiting for any City job. I took the cops test because we were a cop family. Unfortunately (fortunately) the city went bankrupt and my academy class was canceled. The class before me was laid off. Wound up working for the Port Authority & moved to NJ. I knew it was a vollie FD. Never thought of joining until a firehouse visit with my Cub Scout son. Our dept. has an active junior program an all these guys talk about is becoming a career Firefighter. I have told them starting pay is low, they don’t care. The department they want is FDNY however, these kids are not the demographic FDNY is looking for so that its workforce reflects the makeup of City residents.

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  • RyanEMVFD
    replied
    Originally posted by rookiemove
    I'm curious. How many of you would encourage your daughter to be a firefighter?
    I will not encourage any of my kids to follow in my footsteps. If they want to, that's fine. If not, that's just as fine.

    I can't picture wanting my kids to see the death and destruction that I see all the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • hwoods
    replied
    And..................

    Dave, we agree. I think I said this before, but here's my position:

    I don't Recruit Male or Female, Black or White, Short or Tall, Blue or Green, Fat or Thin.

    I Recruit FIREFIGHTERS. PERIOD. Nothing else matters.

    Ironmint, you were born too late. Today, anyone can be anywhere, "Belonging" isn't a consideration anymore. Remember, Women and Cats are going to do as they please, Men and Dogs should get used to the idea and stop whining.

    Leave a comment:


  • ironmint
    replied
    Originally posted by 12282002
    That all being said, I still think there is some valid criticism for FDNY (and other departments, unfortunately FDNY is the highest profile department around). Personally, what are your feelings on minority/women FF's. I'm sure that you don't mind them in the firehouse per se, but do you feel that your department is doing enough to recruit/retain them. If you feel that they do, I would be interested in learning what your department does. If you feel like there's room for improvement, what would you do as chief for a day? I know that my department has a nationwide recruiting machine that promotes our size, salary, and city. All in all, I think that my department is doing a good job of increasing women/minority FF's.
    Personally, I don't think women belong in the firehouse, but that's a whole different topic altogether. The point here is that FDNY is not discriminating against anyone with its hiring practices. It is not the responsibility of FDNY, or any other fire deparment, to go out and specifically try to recruit minorities and women. Minorities and women are offered the same opportunities as everyone else in the fire service. Written tests should not be altered to accomidate the less intelligent amoung us, and physical agility tests should not be altered to accomidate the weaker amoung us.

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  • Dave1983
    replied
    Originally posted by hwoods
    $ 32,724.00 ??? My RETIREMENT income is more than that. AND, needless to say, Without Overtime.

    Seriously, A lot of kids today look at the Bucks First. And Last. Benefits??
    Speaking of how things work here, your right, they look at the pay and benefits above all else. So if thats also the case in NYC, that could be a big part of the problem on getting people to hire on. That problm will only be corrected by higher wages. Id be willing to bet that the honor of working for FDNY means much less to kids these days then it would to you or I. They just look at $$$.

    Leave a comment:


  • hwoods
    replied
    Well...............

    $ 32,724.00 ??? My RETIREMENT income is more than that. AND, needless to say, Without Overtime.

    Seriously, A lot of kids today look at the Bucks First. And Last. Benefits?? Who cares?? At least that's what I hear down in the Mid Atlantic. I have no real handle on Recruitment, even though I've recruited Volunteers for many years. Several Observations from those years: 1. Either you want to do it or you don't. If you don't, you won't put 100% into the job, if you don't put 100% in, then nobody wants to work with you. 2. Volunteering is seen by some as a leg up the ladder when you apply for a full time FD job, but the fact that all segments of the hiring process are completely removed from the FD seems to go unnoticed. 3. Residency Requirements are a huge hinderence to getting enough QUALIFIED applicants, Paid or Volunteer. 4. Some, if not most, Books on Human Behavior claim that the desire to belong is one of the strongest of human impulses. What they would Belong to is a different matter.

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  • BFDNJFF
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave1983
    $32,724 per annum, WTF!

    Its a wonder FDNY gets anyone to apply.

    I dont do this job to make a fortune either, but, damn. Thats almost $4K less then we start and our job isnt half as tough as FDNY, and its cheaper to live here.

    That may be the problem...

    Now ask a FDNY probie what he realy made his first year after all the OT and then you will go ooooOOOOHHH K ! lol

    Leave a comment:

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