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  • Helmets: Traditional vs. Modern

    Just asking for some help here. My dept will be purchasing new gear soon, head to toe. We currently are using the "modern" style helmet, but alot of us want to go with the traditional look.
    Are there any advantages or disadvantages to either style of helmet?
    A question arose from a "modern" supporter about the shields on front of the traditionals getting in the way. Has this ever happened to anyone?
    Any facts or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    I personally use a Ben 2 Plus and have yet to have any problems with the helmet, i wish my department would swith over to a traditional helmet, i believe it gives a professional look towards the public.
    "BIG FIRE = BIG WATER!!"
    Leather Forever

    Comment


    • #3
      Leather!!
      "I truly believe that tradition is important to the long-term survival of the fire service."-Lt. Andrew Fredricks, FDNY,9-11-01

      Comment


      • #4
        Here we go again!!!!

        You can search the posts here on "helmets" and find all kinds of stuff about it.

        My dept. issues Ben Franklin II's with Bourkes and goggles. You get a traditional look with top shelf safety. I have not heard any problems with the 4" face shields on traditional style helmets. If you got a choice or can sell it to The Man, get Bourkes with goggles!

        Keep your head down and your powder dry.
        _______________________
        Lt.Jason Knecht
        Altoona Fire Rescue
        Altoona, WI
        Jason Knecht
        Firefighter/EMT
        Township Fire Dept., Inc.
        Eau Claire, WI

        IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
        http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
        EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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        • #5
          Go traditional...If you wnat o go old school Go Leather!
          Nuff said
          AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

          IAFF Local 3900

          IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm

          ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats

          F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB

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          • #6
            AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

            Let me guess...next you are considering buying new nozzles!

            Seriously....buy what you can afford and what you think will work the best for you and your department. Thay all have plusses and minuses.....personally I would choose leather...the 1010 is a good alternative.

            Dave

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            • #7
              Cairns Brothers Aluminum 1970s

              A helmet is only as good as the head inside it.
              I preferred the Cairns Aluminum helmet from
              the 1970,s. It was great for breaking windows,
              and if you wanted to be in style you wore it backwards.
              That way nobody knew if you were coming or going.
              Then some genius said, hey you could get electrocuted
              if you came in contact with an electrical source. So that was the end of the Cairns Aluminum Helmet..
              But then it must have been the same genius that said lets get rid of the wooden ladders because they were too heavy.
              So what do we buy ?(Right, you got it)Aluminum metal ladders because they are lighter, but dont they conduct electricity?
              Then someone came out with the plastic helmets.
              Well , until you see one melted at a fire or melted
              stuck to your head, what can I say.. Go Cairns leather
              traditional and dont worry about the weight.
              And dont be the guy who carrys it under his arm,
              because it might mess up his hair.But whatever
              you buy, treat your helmet with respect, for the
              life it saves may be your own..Stay Safe Brother
              Heres a good link about Helmets
              http://www.allhandsfire.com/helmets.html
              P/S Use the flip up shields .. They work fine.
              Just drill two holes, screws in , and your ready
              for action....
              Neil
              Last edited by neildonahue; 08-21-2003, 08:33 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well.............

                For a "traditional" look at an affordable price, you can't beat the Cairns 1010. I have one that has seen some hard years of service, (I run over a thousand calls a year personally, the station total last year was 9,137) and before anyone asks, I have Cairns Goggles ON the helmet, and it's the best system that I have found. Flip downs and bourkes are not NFPA approved for total eye protection, so why bother with them at all? Anyway, don't take my word for it, shop around, and ask questions. Stay Safe....
                Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                In memory of
                Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                IACOJ Budget Analyst

                I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                www.gdvfd18.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  We recently switched almost all our crews to Cairns 1010s, from a variety of salad bowls. The decision was primarily a morale issue; the salad bowls work fine, but the traditional style helmets look.... I dunno, "proper."

                  I agree whole-hartedly with the venerable Chief Woods on the eye-protection. I personnaly wear leather, with Bourkes; and all our 1010s have Bourkes. They are only there for decoration. Everyone was also issued safety glasses. Whatever you end up with, if it comes with a face shield, take it off. It'll only get hung up on stuff, the first $#itty fire you get into will cloud it with soot and crap making it useless except as a blinder, and printed bigger than crap on the side: "This shield not impact-rated. Not to be used for impact protection."
                  Omnis Cedo Domus

                  www.hinckleyfd.org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Shop around and compare

                    Lots and lots of different helmets out there, made of multiple substances with different eye protection systems etc. Get some to try out (or at least on), one of our members got a Fire Knight, 'fighter pilot' style, I liked the looks and looked around, Pacific Helmets sent me an F7 to try, bought it immeadiately, and have never been happier with a piece of equipment. Kevelar nice and light, built in face shield and light holder, I feel more side protection, and can move head and neck more than with a 'traditional' style, especially when 'packed up'. Leather is great tradition but heavy, I would truely love one (for my wall). Look around and compare, #1 -protect your melon, then cost, last priority is appearance. Good Luck with whatever you select.


                    Be Safe Out There.
                    (should now be CharlieRFD,past,Pres.), but I've had this screen name for so long, I'm keeping it..., besides I'm Deputy Chief now.
                    BE SAFE OUT THERE
                    NEVER FORGET
                    GOD BLESS THE 343 AND 60, MAY GOD GRANT HIS PEACE TO THEIR LOVED ONES.
                    IACOJ
                    F.O.O.P.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Forget tradition...

                      Are you going to throw away your handheld radios and go
                      back to cans and string? Leather fire hose and rubber
                      turnouts. Believe me, I respect tradition, but am NOT
                      big on making that the only factor in buying an important
                      piece of protective clothing.

                      More too often, I read people in here stating- "TRADITION!"
                      "Its all about tradition." I feel/hope a more educated person(s)
                      should look outside the traditional box and research
                      more reasons to purchase any product other than "tradition."

                      Now, ofcourse I am going to throw in my favorite helmets.
                      They are the Phenix First Due line. www.phenixfirehelmets.com
                      Yeah, they are lighter, but very popular all over the
                      world and your neck isnt sore after wearing them.

                      I mean think about it, who gives a rip what you wear vs.
                      YOUR job performance. When you leave a scene, do you get
                      more "atta boys" because you wore leather or did the
                      fire go out better because you had "tradition" on your
                      head???

                      Think about it...

                      PS- F/T job- Cairns 1010
                      P/T job- Phenix 1500
                      Last edited by CALFFBOU; 08-24-2003, 06:20 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Chuckle, Chuckle.................

                        Boy, I had an momentary lapse yesterday. Went to Wendys for lunch, ordered a Taco Salad, and when the girl placed it on the counter, I thought it was being served in Brett's helmet. Closer inspection showed that it was just another salad bowl. Stay Safe....
                        Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                        In memory of
                        Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                        Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                        IACOJ Budget Analyst

                        I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                        www.gdvfd18.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Forget tradition...

                          Originally posted by CALFFBOU
                          Are you going to throw away your handheld radios and go
                          back to cans and string? Leather fire hose and rubber
                          turnouts. Believe me, I respect tradition, but am NOT
                          big on making that the only factor in buying an important
                          piece of protective clothing.

                          More too often, I read people in here stating- "TRADITION!"
                          "Its all about tradition." I feel/hope a more educated person(s)
                          should look outside the traditional box and research
                          more reasons to purchase any product other than "tradition."

                          Now, ofcourse I am going to throw in my favorite helmets.
                          They are the Phenix First Due line. www.phenixfirehelmets.com
                          Yeah, they are lighter, but very popular all over the
                          world and your neck isnt sore after wearing them.

                          I mean think about it, who gives a rip what you wear vs.
                          YOUR job performance. When you leave a scene, do you get
                          more "atta boys" because you wore leather or did the
                          fire go out better because you had "tradition" on your
                          head???

                          Think about it...
                          I for one haven't had a sore neck after a fire because of the traditional style helmet. Your argument that those helmets affects job performance is ridiculous. Maybe you guys don't respect tradition over on the west coast, but else where most people do. Fire fighters have been wearing those style helmets for many, many years. Why change to some lame *** round looking helmet? So we can look more like utility workers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Why is it the "non-traditional" guys always talk about tradition like it is a plague. Tradition isn't slow or backwards thinking, it isn't even a reluctance to change. It is defined as "The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication". Also as "A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage." I think tradition gets blamed for way too much. I respect those who have gone before me, much of what we now know was learned with their blood.

                            We have a tendency to re-invent the wheel in the Fire Service, but when everything gets boiled down to its core, we fall back to the tried and true methods that have worked for years. Sure we modify them, tweak em a bit.

                            I would think by now Bou that you would have figured out that what people wear matters to them. Not just because "we always wore it", but for a multitude of reasons. People will stand here and speak in favor of leathers as much as you will speak in favor of the Phenix helemts. You will notice in my post I offered a couple of alternative that were not leather.

                            We will never get a concensus on helmets here, nozzles either. We need to accept it an move on. But for the love of God please read my words on tradition....thats what it is all about, not which helmet I wear.....

                            Dave

                            (Parts of this post a re a reprint from an earlier post on this topic.)
                            Last edited by hfd66truck; 08-24-2003, 08:11 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Chuckle, Chuckle.................

                              Originally posted by hwoods
                              Boy, I had an momentary lapse yesterday. Went to Wendys for lunch, ordered a Taco Salad, and when the girl placed it on the counter, I thought it was being served in Brett's helmet. Closer inspection showed that it was just another salad bowl. Stay Safe....
                              ROTFLMAO!

                              Posted by hfd66truck
                              Tradition isn't slow or backwards thinking, it isn't even a reluctance to change. It is defined as "The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication". Also as "A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage." I think tradition gets blamed for way too much. I respect those who have gone before me, much of what we now know was learned with their blood.

                              We will never get a concensus on helmets here, nozzles either. We need to accept it an move on. But for the love of God please read my words on tradition....thats what it is all about, not which helmet I wear.....
                              AMEN!
                              ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                              Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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