Canada Bungles Response to Blackout / Chretien nowhere in sight WANNA RANT

[manofire2]

Originally posted by LadyCapn
Maybe we need to stop electing our Prime Ministers from Quebec they might be a little more interested in representing ALL of the Country.

We're doing our part here in the dark side (west) now it's up to you to convince all of your firends in "upper" Canada. If you vote liberal you are not part of the problem, you are the problem. Be part of the solution.

[Lewiston2FF]

Just to lighten the mood a little.

A French Canadian and a Guy from Ontario were walking along the Lake Ontario beach arguing about politics when one of them stumbled over an object in the sand. When they picked it up and cleaned it up to see what it was a Genie came out.
The Genie said to the two, "Since you have rescued me I will grant you each one wish".
The French Canadian decided he would go first and said, " I wish for a 300 foot high wall to be built around the province of Quebec to that we can finally be separated from Canada".
And with that the Genie said done, and so it was.

When it was the guy from Ontario's turn the genie asked him what he wanted, and he thought about it for a little while, and finally he looked up and said, "Fill it with water".

[mcaldwell]

Re: Time for a change...........

Originally posted by hwoods
Scrap the Prime Minister and all those things that go with the European style government and establish something similar to the U.S. Here, we may not be perfect, but we have some control over the mutts, like knowing exactly when the next 20 elections will be held.

Even if they are considered a farce by the rest of the world? (Just kidding... sort of.)

We Canadians like to bitch about our politicians just like everybody else, but at the end of the day, we are still relativaley proud of our system. We like to poke fun at you yanks for your "two party" system that basically puts a new poster child on the same old approach to special interest govt for the rich, and we sure love to brag that our last federal election was done and counted in less than 14 hours. And if you ask any Canadian on the street what his most valued Canadian legacy is, he'll usually say free Health Care.

At the end of the day, any of our Western "Democratic" systems can still be compared to a rickety old car barely hobbling it's way down the road, but we Canadians are still happier living with our duct taped "socialist" government agenda and putting up with Quebec, than any other system out there.

[manofire2]

FREE HEALTH CARE?????

I don't know what you're smoking out there in lotus land but one of the biggest problems is idiots thinking our health care is free and free to abuse. We pay through the nose for medicare that's why we are one of the highest taxed countries in the world. Even Piere Trudeau stated in his memoirs that "the great cost of medicare, is the dismantling of the Canadian armed forces." What do you think paid for your "free" health care in the first place. I have read that if you took the money that your tax dollars pay for your "free" health care and placed it into a private health care plan, you would not only get a higher standard of health care but it would also be comprehensive and include dental care and pharma care.

You're right our election was over in less than 14 hours, in fact it was over long before you voted and Ontario put our delusional Prime Minister back in power with just 46% of the popular vote.

Speak for your self when you say what Canadians want. I'm proud of my country but ashamed of my government and your so called "socialist agenda".

I would also find it interesting to hear what the people in Kelowna and Cranbrook think of our federal government and its indifference towards their needs.

[NJFFSA16]

Ya think Canada's Head of State is bad???

10,000 dead before the French Prez speaks!

PARIS (AP) - France's government turned its attention Friday to
farmers whose animals have died and whose crops have withered in an
intense heat wave estimated to have killed up to 10,000 people.
Agriculture Minister Herve Gaymard estimated that the damage to
French farms was between $1.1 billion and $4.4 billion.
"Everyone knows the cost is high for farmers, and national
solidarity must play a role," he told Europe-1 radio. Prime
Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin was to host talks with farmers'
representatives later Friday.
Jean-Michel Lemetayer, president of the FNSEA farmers union,
said agriculture was devastated.
"The atmosphere in the countryside is extremely morose," he
told The Associated Press. "Every day without rain aggravates the
situation."
On Thursday, President Jacques Chirac made his first comments on the heat wave crisis, promising "everything will be done" to
correct failings in the health system that was overwhelmed by
victims.
He also leveled criticism at the public, saying many elderly
victims "died alone in their homes."
"These dramas again shed light on the solitude of many of our
aged or handicapped citizens," said Chirac, who has been
criticized for not speaking about the heat crisis earlier.
France's longest and hottest heat wave, with temperatures that
topped 104 in the first two weeks of August, probably caused some
10,000 deaths, said Hubert Falco, secretary of state for the
elderly. The government says a complete death toll is still being
compiled.
In a separate interview with Le Monde newspaper, Falco said the
crisis showed France is coping badly with aging.
Falco said "mortality linked to the heat wave was highest"
among people over 85 - who now number 1.2 million in France, and in
10 years will total 2.4 million.
Nearly 80 percent of retirement facilities are short-staffed, he
said. "Our society was not prepared," Falco said.
Falco told another newspaper, La Provence, that he envisions a
new emergency plan for retirement homes, where many victims died.
He said he wants to be able to mobilize personnel quickly in case
of disasters and decentralize decision-making.
While other European governments have not reported the huge
death toll of France, signs are emerging of significant spikes in
deaths in several countries where temperatures also soared.
The Central Bureau for Statistics said the heat claimed
500-1,000 lives in the Netherlands, and Portugal's Health Ministry
estimated more than 1,300 dead.
Germany, which was not as hot and is counting its dead more
slowly, has tallied just 30 heat-related deaths.
Italy's Health Ministry has refused to give figures, but calls
by The Associated Press to several major cities found marked
increases in deaths compared with last year. Genoa had 693 in the
first 18 days of August, compared with 475 in the whole month last
year. In Turin, 732 died, more than 500 of them aged over 70,
compared with 388 last year.
In France, morgues and funeral homes overflowed with bodies and
painful questions are being asked about why so many elderly people
were left alone.
"People have lost their sense of responsibility," said Nadia
Finkielman, lending support to a grieving friend at a Paris morgue.
"They think the government is going to resolve every problem in
their life."

(Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[mcaldwell]

Originally posted by manofire2
I have read that if you took the money that your tax dollars pay for your "free" health care and placed it into a private health care plan, you would not only get a higher standard of health care but it would also be comprehensive and include dental care and pharma care.

This is a misconception that is finally being proven wrong with the latest failed attempts to privatize Health Care Clinics in major Canadian cities. We all know that private FD's and EMS providers cut expenses to improve profits, and Hospitals will do exactly the same and worse in the name of "competition" (as is done in the US all the time). I will take our system any day before I watch class-based health care imposed on us.

You're right our election was over in less than 14 hours, in fact it was over long before you voted and Ontario put our delusional Prime Minister back in power with just 46% of the popular vote.

A popular attitude in AB these days. You're begginning to sound like the new Quebec.

I would also find it interesting to hear what the people in Kelowna and Cranbrook think of our federal government and its indifference towards their needs.

Kelowna and Cranbrook along with the rest of BC and AB, have been receiving federal aid through military and other logistical assistance since this crisis was only a few weeks old. They have also been promised significant federal aid for the rebuilding phase. Unfortunately, this is the 100 year fire season, and all the money in the world cannot fix it. As painful as it is to watch, this is as natural a cycle as the fires themselves. You build sloppily in the interface, and you take your chances.

And ironically, these are some of the same areas that are crying to the federal gov't to leave them alone and let them manage their own forest practices, even though thier own practices have exacerbated these catastrophes in the first place.

[manofire2]

Originally posted by mcaldwell






Kelowna and Cranbrook along with the rest of BC and AB, have been receiving federal aid through military and other logistical assistance since this crisis was only a few weeks old. They have also been promised significant federal aid for the rebuilding phase. Unfortunately, this is the 100 year fire season, and all the money in the world cannot fix it. As painful as it is to watch, this is as natural a cycle as the fires themselves. You build sloppily in the interface, and you take your chances.

I stand corrected there has been massive (this is sarcasm in case you don't catch it) Federal responce to this crisis, just today it was announce that there have been 800 reservists (not regular forces) dispatched to help fire crews. One has to wonder whether reservists would be used if this crisis were in Ont. or Quebec but I digress.

I am not by the way demeaning the role of the reservists in any way, by all accounts they are serving honourably in Kelowna and my hat is off to them, great job.

Jean Chretien himself has made a great sacrifice. He has announce that he will cut short a sightseeing trip to the arctic to visit the scene. What do you want to bet that the visit will include a photo-op of Jean with a fire hose (remember that sand bag shot in Manitoba during the floods), followed by a tour of the area by helicopter (not a sea king) and then right back to his vacation. I am sure this is a precursor to massive federal aid to the region.

On a more serious note, tremendous job by all fighting the fires as well as those working in the disaster services. These people deserve our support and our prayers.

By the way, since you are from BC, would there be any chance that the Martin Mars from Sproat Lake will be sent out to help in Kelowna.

[Smoke20286]

manofire, not that I disagree with you entirely, but what difference does it make if they sent reservists or regulars, neither are trained as wildland firefighters, I know that forestry firefighters from Newfoundland have been sent to BC, it is my understanding that this is being paid for by the Federal Government. Politicians are what they are brother, no matter what stripe they wear. In fact check out this

The Story of Mouseland


as told by Tommy Douglas, 1944




It's the story of a place called Mouseland. Mouseland was a place where all the little mice lived and played, were born and died. And they lived much the same as you and I do.

They even had a parliament. And every four years the had an election. Used to walk to the polls and cast their ballots. Some of them even got a ride to the polls. And got a ride for the next four years afterwards too. Just like you and me. And every time on election day all the little mice used to go to the ballot box and they used to elect a government. A government made up of big, fat, black cats.

Now if you think it strange that mice should elect a government made up of cats, you just look at the history of Canada for the last 90 years and maybe you'll see that they weren't any stupider then we are.

Now I'm not saying anything against the cats. They were nice fellows. They conducted their government with dignity. They passed good laws -- that is, laws that were good for cats. But the laws that were good for cats weren't very good for mice. One of the laws said that mouse holes had to be big enough so a cat could get his paw in. Another law said that mice could only travel at certain speeds -- so that a cat could get his breakfast without too much effort.

All the laws were good laws. For cats. But, oh, they were hard on the mice. And life was getting harder and harder. And when the mice couldn't put up with it any more, they decided that something had to be done about it. So they went en masse to the polls. They voted the black cats out. They put in the white cats.

Now the white cats had put up a terrific campaign. They said: "All that's Mouseland needs is more vision." They said: "The trouble with Mouseland is those round mouse holes we got. If you put us in we'll establish square mouse holes." And they did. And the square mouse holes were twice as big as the round mouse holes, and now the cat could get both paws in. And life was tougher then ever.

And when they couldn't take that anymore, they voted the white cats out and put the black one's in again. Then they went back to the white cats. Then to the black cats. They even tried half black and half white cats. And they called that coalition. They even got one government made up of cats with spots on them: they were cats that tried to make a noise like a mouse but ate like a cat.

You see, my friends, the trouble wasn't with the colour of the cat. The trouble was that they were cats. And because they were cats, they naturally looked after cats instead of mice.

Presently there came along one little mouse who had an idea. My friends, watch out for the little fellow with an idea. And he said to the other mice, "Look fellows, why do we keep electing a government made up of cats? Why don't we elect a government made up of mice?" "OH," they said, "he's a Bolshevik. Lock him up!" So they put him in jail.

But I want to remind you: That you can lock up a mouse or a man but you can't lock up an idea.

--Tommy Douglas, 1944

[manofire2]

That's nice SMOKE and I happen to be a big Tommy Douglas fan but Jean Chretien transends the normal political game. His distain for the West which he terms as the dark side is beyond politics. The man is a liar, he laughs out the side of his face as he lines his pockets in the Auberge Grande Mere scandal. I have no use for this man and will dance the cance of joy when we finally see his sorry *** walking out the door. He has now surpassed Trudeau as the worst PM in Canadian history.

[Smoke20286]

Did you forget a guy named Mulroony? My parents have been PC's all their lives, and even they hate that crook

P.S. I'm a big fan of Tommy Douglas too, as an interesting side note Kiefer Sutherland(star of movies and TV's 24) is his grandson

[Scoop422]

You can blame the Federal Liberals on Ontario but if you do you've got to have a serious alternative. When Chretien was first elected we had just had Mulroney. Next time the opponents were Joe Clarke and I can't even remember the Alliance guy thats how impressive he was. And don't accuse me of being Liberal I vote PC. Also if Chretien hates the West so much why did he send disaster relief for the Red River flood and nothing to Toronto for SARS?

[Smoke20286]

You've hit the nail on the head Scoop, The Aliance or Reform party or whatever will never be a viable alternative for Eastern Canada, and to you guys out West I do mean Eastern, NOT Ontario The PC's have no real national base anymore( Mulroney saw to that), that leaves us with the Liberals or the NDP (who cannot attract strong enough candidates to win a national election. So guess who will form the next government in Ottawa, and the next, and probably the next after that. It gets monotonous doesnt it.

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Well since we're talking about it I figured I'd just post this here

Chretien breaks off from Northern trip to tour B.C. disaster area

LOUISE ELLIOTT

IQALUIT (CP) - Prime Minister Jean Chretien interrupted his tour of the Eastern Arctic to visit the fire-scarred Okanagan region of British Columbia on Sunday.

About 30,000 people have been driven from their homes in the southern suburbs of Kelowna in the face of a relentless blaze.

Scores of fires have consumed about five times the amount of water usually spent to control such incidents in the province each summer, while destroying vast swaths of forest and some towns.

"He's going to be on the ground and see it for himself," said Steven Hogue, spokesman for the prime minister.

Chretien cancelled a planned visit to Cape Dorset on the southwestern tip of Baffin Island to return home before heading to British Columbia.

He will make the unscheduled trip on the heels of criticism that he was almost invisible during Ontario's province-wide power outage last week.

During that crisis, the prime minister remained at his cottage in Lac-des-Piles, Que. and monitored the federal response to the blackout over the telephone.

He did appear before cameras in his hometown of Shawinigan two days after the lights went out. Any earlier public appearance during the outage would have been "grandstanding," Chretien said last week.

Chretien opened a new national park adjacent to Iqaluit, the capital of Nunavut, on Saturday. He also spent time hiking in the region with his wife, Aline, daughter, and grandchildren.

The federal government has already dispatched Canadian soldiers to the Okanagan to help fight the forest fires. Chretien indicated he was listening to the appeals of British Columbia Premier Gordon Campbell for federal aid.

"I heard the premier. We said that whenever he asks we can help, we're there and we'll be there."

Chretien has been chided for not always being there. He was criticized for failing to go to Toronto in the initial days after the SARS outbreak earlier this year. He was also accused of being slow to speak up after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

But a representative of the prime minister's office seemed prepared for this criticism. Hogue said Chretien was visible during key Canadian crises such as the Saguenay, Que. floods of 1996, the ice storm which hit eastern Ontario and Quebec in 1997, a tornado in Pine Lake Alberta in 1999 and the Winnipeg flood of 1997.

The prime minister's plans in Kelowna include touring an evacuation site.

The Canadian Press, 2003

08/23/2003 15:00 EST

But a representative of the prime minister's office seemed prepared for this criticism. Hogue said Chretien was visible during key Canadian crises such as the Saguenay, Que. floods of 1996, the ice storm which hit eastern Ontario and Quebec in 1997, a tornado in Pine Lake Alberta in 1999 and the Winnipeg flood of 1997.

Oh so this makes it all OK?? LMFAO!!!

[PFire23]

Chretien is a GOOF!!! ......... need I say more???

[manofire2]

Originally posted by Scoop422
You can blame the Federal Liberals on Ontario but if you do you've got to have a serious alternative. When Chretien was first elected we had just had Mulroney. Next time the opponents were Joe Clarke and I can't even remember the Alliance guy thats how impressive he was. And don't accuse me of being Liberal I vote PC. Also if Chretien hates the West so much why did he send disaster relief for the Red River flood and nothing to Toronto for SARS?

At least during the SARS crisis the waiting period for EI was waived for medical workers. The same relief was requested for workers in Alberta who lost their jobs due to mad cow disease and was refused (a bit of a double standard don't you think).

My beef with Ontario voters is that they don't realize that they don't hold politicians accountable for the past. The voters in Hamilton voted Sheila Copps back in after the GST lie. They had a glorious opportunity to send a message that lieing is not acceptable, instead they did the opposite. I hope Chretiens promise of aid to those displaced in BC doesn't prove to be another of his lies but I am sceptical. There will be aid but I fear it will be a token response and far less than is needed.

I hope for once that Chretien proves me wrong but I won't hold my breath.