Phoenix removes SCBA from cabs?

[FiremedicMike]

Forgive me if this has already been posted..

I heard a rumor that citing safety issues regarding firefighters not wearing seatbelts when they pack up, PFD removed all SCBAs from the cab and put them in compartments.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[ADSNWFLD]

I would hope not, but today it wouldn't surprise me.
Wearing your seat belt is of the upmost importance but you should be as close as possible ready to go when you step off the rig. It takes a bit of practice but you can get your pack on while in your seatbelt.
If you can't do it now then drill until you can.

[SFDchief]

From what I understand it is true. This action was pointed out in several of the seminars at last week's Firehouse Expo. The reasoning behind this is so the crew is seated while responding and not moving around in an attempt to get packed up.

[PenguinMedic]

WHAT THE H*** IS WRONG WITH THE FIRE SERVICE TODAY?!!!

HAVE WE ALL LOST OUR MINDS?

You know what folks, I've got a hot news flash for you all.

Are you ready?

FIREFIGHTING IS DANGEROUS, YOU COULD BE HURT OR KILLED!

Now don't get me wrong here, I am not reckless or suicidal when I am at work. I love my wife and family, and I want to come home safely at the end of my shift. I truly believe there is still much that needs to be done to improve the safety of firefighters in America today.

But come on now.

We still have a job to do folks. We still have to drive fast to fires and other life-threatening emergencies. We still have to go inside burning houses, earthquake damaged apartment buildings, and high-rise towers that have been struck by jets. We still have to take risks to save lives.

Yes, you heard me right you "Safety Police" out there, RISKS.

This job will never be 100% safe, NEVER!

IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, I SUGGEST YOU FIND A NEW CAREER!

There are "Leaders" in the fire service today who are pushing us back to the days of "Stick the nozzle in the window and knock it down first". They would like to remove ALL risk from firefighting.

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

This is a dirty, dangerous job we do. If you do it long enough, you will be injured at some point. You will go to firefighter funerals, and like I and many other firefighters out there, will loose friends.

The people we protect depend on us. They expect us to take risks to help them. When we pull up in front of a blazing house with children trapped inside, they expect us to go in and get them. THAT IS OUR JOB! That is what we do, we take risks to help others. That is what the whole thing comes down to at the end of the day.

When you pull up at a working structure fire, you should have a pack on your back. End of story. You should be ready to go to work. This is a basic part of our job. You should not be wasting time getting a pack out of a box from the side of the rig.

We stopped that in the 70's, remember?

Someone please tell me that I am wrong. Tell me we are not going down that road. The road that ends where we don't even go anymore. When someone decides that it's just to dangerous to leave the station because we could get a hang nail, or catch a cold.

Please?

[SFDchief]

Re: WHAT THE H*** IS WRONG WITH THE FIRE SERVICE TODAY?!!!

Originally posted by PenguinMedic
HAVE WE ALL LOST OUR MINDS?

You know what folks, I've got a hot news flash for you all.

Are you ready?

FIREFIGHTING IS DANGEROUS, YOU COULD BE HURT OR KILLED!

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you. However, there is a difference between doing something that is dangerous and doing something that is reckless.

Chief Brunacini has made quite an impact on the way we (all firefighters) do things. As I stated this was discussed briefly in Baltimore. Solid reasons were not given.

There were several speculations as to why this desision was made. In discusion it all came back to the fact that firefighters should be seated and belted while responding.

PenguinMedic, you stated:
"When you pull up at a working structure fire, you should have a pack on your back. End of story. You should be ready to go to work. This is a basic part of our job. You should not be wasting time getting a pack out of a box from the side of the rig."

I didn't hear that they were being put in boxes. On some of my older engines the air paks are mounted on drop down Zico brackets. The time "wasted" getting out of the cab and getting packed up is on average 30 seconds.

Looking back at the history of the fireservice there have been some dramatic decisions made. Many were not agreed with at the time but looking back now they all make sence.

[rfcmitch]

The job is not 100% safe so why add to it? If removing these packs were so people would wear seatbelts thats great.

Priority #1: Our Safety

Lets not forget that.

[nmfire]

In my opinion, the seatbelt is more important that pack. If I get killed, I can't help anyone. The attitude of "The job is already dangerous so who cares" is pretty lame.

[SCOOBY14B]

I think some of the reason is also that scba's can become missles in an accident if not retrained properly.

We started in 1996 taking the SCBA seat from the officer. His pack is mounted in the right 3rd compartment. There has been MUCH talk about removing them from the cab completely at my department as well.

[SPFDRum]

It is true, Phoenix has not had cab mounted SCBA's for quit some time now. With that, they have yet to have a fatality related to apparatus accidents. (And they have had a few.)
Personally I think it's a great idea. Not only is your crew seated and belted, when you arrive, it forces you to slow down and perform your own size up while packing-up.

[Adze39]

Originally posted by SPFDRum
It is true, Phoenix has not had cab mounted SCBA's for quit some time now. With that, they have yet to have a fatality related to apparatus accidents.

Yeah, but many departments who do have SCBA in the cabs have yet to have a fatality related to apparatus accidents.

[nmfire]

Just saying that there haven't been any fatal accidents doesn't say much. What matters how many of those fatal accidents were due to being un-buckled while messing with the air pack.

[rfcmitch]

Wearing the seatbelt is safer. Packing up I am sure is a good excuse for some people not to buckle but thats not a good enough one for me. Even though there is no packs I am sure that not everyone wears their seatbelt still, but thats going to be their problem.

We are the first to criticise if someone dont wear their seatbelt but I find that sometimes we are the greatest offenders and we pay in deaths every year. Maybe eventually we will all learn. If it takes removing the packs from the seats to get you to buckle up and save your life. Then lets do it.

Practice what you preach.
Our Safety is #1.
Do whatever it takes.

[lieutleroy140]

A little food for thought here. Don't most air pack brackets have to meet some standard to prevent them from launching around the cab in the event of an emergency? I know on most of our newer rigs the seat back brackets have a tether system with a latch to release the airpack. Also, if you put you arms through the shoulder straps only, for the ride, then belt in, the pack won't fly out anyway. All I see here is a needless delay to retrieve the pack from a compartment. Will the temptation to "make a quick dash" when Mommy is screaming on the front lawn preclude someone from masking up? A rhetorical question that should be asked. I see this as an extreme example of solving a problem. I don't work in Phoenix, so I don't know the particulars, but this sounds like a last resort solution to a problem with a different way of solving it. Let the debate rage on!

[UsingAllHands]

Re: Re: WHAT THE H*** IS WRONG WITH THE FIRE SERVICE TODAY?!!!

Originally posted by SFDchief


The time "wasted" getting out of the cab and getting packed up is on average 30 seconds.

A fire can double in size in 30 seconds...

Thirty seconds is a long time if you're the one trapped inside a building, choking on smoke, coughing your lungs out, life slipping away...

PenguinMedic, for the record I'm with you, brother. Why not just take all the pretty flashing lights and siren-thingy's off the rigs, too? In fact, I'm sure we'd all be safer just taking our sweet-*** time getting there. You know what? Maybe the next job we get can wait until after we've finished our meal, because I might not be safe fighting a fire on an empty stomach. When we get there, I'll be sure to stay on the outside because I could get hurt going into a fire.

As far as Phoenix's Chief Brunacini is concerned: I've heard and read a lot about his philosophies and policies. I've come to the conclusion that I don't really care what he has to say, and unless you happen to work for him, you shouldn't be very concerned about his opinion either.

[lutan1]

The fire services over here trialled the packs in the back of thes eats and I beleive they went away from it due to increased OHS risks of having them there versus in a compartment elsewhere on the rig.

I beleive the issues were:

* Operator comfort whilst riding to the scene and also on long distance runs

* If you got out of the rig not wearing the pack, and then found you needed to wear it, you were required to climb back into the rig to don it

* Due to the increased weight and the changed centre of gravity, it had the potential to throw your balance out when climbing in and out of the rig

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that packs mounted in the rear of seats is till relatively new- as long as I can remember, we've always had to climb out and don the set from a bracket in a compartment.

When someone decides that it's just to dangerous to leave the station because we could get a hang nail, or catch a cold.

Big difference to a permanant injury that could put us out of work for the remainder of our lives!

Why not just take all the pretty flashing lights and siren-thingy's off the rigs, too? In fact, I'm sure we'd all be safer just taking our sweet-*** time getting there. You know what? Maybe the next job we get can wait until after we've finished our meal, because I might not be safe fighting a fire on an empty stomach. When we get there, I'll be sure to stay on the outside because I could get hurt going into a fire.

As an OHS professional with the emergency services background, I'm amazed by these sort of statements and other similar ones made in this thread- we have a right to go into these dangerous situations in the safest possible way, with the safest equipment, etc. If it's deemed a greater risk having the backpack in the cabin, then so be it!

Sure, a fire can double in 30 seconds, but at least I'd be in a position to assist the trapped victim, unlike the poor FF wearing the backpack who fell from the cab of the rig trying to get out...