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WE"RE NOT READY...The PROOF

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  • WE"RE NOT READY...The PROOF

    Here it is in black and white, click "VIEW REPORT". Read it slow, let it sink in. Go to page 23 and see the people who wrote it.

    http://www.cfr.org/publication.php?id=6085#

    Then ask yourself this:

    Why did the Senate vote down this funding 50-43?

    It's time to make ourselves heard in the voting booth!!!!!!

  • #2
    No Luck.......

    The Damned Thing Wouldn't Open Up For Me To Read. Thanks For Trying Lt. Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

    Comment


    • #3
      It's an Adobe PDF file.

      Comment


      • #4
        Its absolutely disgusting that in the wake of all of this, the fire dept is once again being pushed behind. The "Department of Homeland Security" is an atrocity that is giving cash to every politician with room in their pockets, but is especially geared towards law enforcement. An article in Fire Engineering (I think?) talked about how the fire services voice has not, is not, and will not be heard. Fire Service training facilities, with true proven records, including the National Fire Academy, are having budgets slashed in order to create new training facilities, primarily geared towards law enforcement activities.

        And I ask you, when push comes to shove, who's doing most of the work?!

        Comment


        • #5
          And I ask you, when push comes to shove, who's doing most of the work?!
          I don't know. You tell me. How many of your personnel are devoted full time to homeleand security issues?

          Many law enforcement agencies have full-time people doing some or all of the following activities every day.

          1. Target hardening
          2. Intelligence
          3. Task Force work
          4. COBRA Teams
          5. Security work at high hazard locations

          I am not saying that the fire service doesn't deserve funding (BTW, it's out there. The fire service in my county just got gobs of cash for mobile decon facilties. The problem is the money is being distributed through the States). But the simple fact is the homeland security IS primarily a law enforcement function when you look at the prevention aspect.
          PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

          Comment


          • #6
            George is right...did I just say that?

            From a prevention standpoint law enforcement does the vast majority of the work. Every day that goes by without an attack is, in a way, a justification for the dollars thrown their way.

            In the eyes of some beaurocrats the only way for the fire service to truly demonstrate the need for more funding is through drills like TOPOFF or a real incident. If the fire service performs well, guess what? No need demonstrated. If the fire service performs poorly do you think a lack of funding will be a good enough excuse?

            We are in a catch 22 folks. We are a victim of years of apathy when it comes to requesting federal funds. Law enforcement has been at the trough for years. We are playing catch up. We have a lot of work to do.
            Last edited by Duffman; 08-02-2003, 09:31 AM.
            "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

            IACOJ

            Comment


            • #7
              Sorry I didn't get back in here so fast, my roof just caved in when Duff agreed with me.

              One other thought. If the fire service wants to get their fair share of the funding for homeland defense, it would seem to me that it might be prudent to start to cozy up to your Emergency Management people. They are the agencies that most states are using to distribute the funds. You also have to have a plan to utilize the money. Not just "We're going to hire eight FF". these federal grants are huge, but there is a catch. They require a submission of a comprehensive plan to use the $ and they require the agency to buy the equipment, then they reimburse. It's a system of checks and balances. Why? I know of a large urban public safety entity who toolf gobs of fed $ right after 9/11 and used it to ostensible purchase homeland security equip and services. In reality, a lot of bosses got new cars.

              Most of these grants also have a specific purpose attached. We just got a large (about $200 K) grant. But the sole purpose was to provide respiratory protection to law enforcement officers in the form of WMD certified respirators. It could not be used for anything else. No training, no personnel, no vehicles, no facilties; equipment only.

              Before any of you complain, do your homework and become part of a solution instead of bitching about the problem.
              PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

              Comment


              • #8
                An excerpt:

                <<
                According to data provided to the Task Force by emergency responder
                professional associations and leading emergency response officials from around the country, America will fall approximately $98.4 billion short of meeting critical emergency responder needs over the next five years if current funding levels are maintained.

                Currently the federal budget to fund emergency responders is $27 billion for five years beginning in 2004. Because record keeping and categorization of states and local spending varies greatly across states and localities, it is extremely difficult to estimate a single total five-year expenditure by state and local governments. According to budget estimates referenced by Appendix A of this report, state and local spending over the same period could be as low as $26 billion and as high as $76 billion. Therefore, total estimated spending for emergency responders by federal, state, and local governments combined would be between $53 and $103 billion for five years beginning in FY04.

                Because the $98.4 billion unmet needs budget covers areas not adequately addressed at current funding levels, the total necessary overall expenditure for emergency responders would be $151.4 billion over five years if the United States is currently spending $53 billion, and $201.4 billion if the United States is currently spending $103 billion. Estimated combined federal, state, and local expenditures therefore would need to be as much as tripled over the next five years to address this unmet need. Covering this funding shortfall using federal funds alone would require a five-fold increase from the current level of $5.4 billion per year to an annual federal expenditure of $25.1 billion.

                The preliminary figures were based on the critical analysis of needs estimates provided by emergency responder communities and were developed in partnership with the Concord Coalition and the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, two of the nation’s leading budget analysis organizations. While these figures represent the most reliable public numbers to date, the nation urgently needs to develop a better framework and procedures for generating more precise numbers. But the government cannot wait until it has completed this process to increase desperately needed funding to emergency
                responders.>>>


                "If the nation does not take immediate steps to better identify and address the urgent needs of emergency responders, the next terrorist incident could have an even more devastating impact than the September 11 attacks."

                Take a good look at some members who wrote this:

                WARREN B. RUDMAN is Chairman of the Independent Task Force on Emergency Responders. He is currently a partner in the international law firm Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton and Garrison and formerly Chairman of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board under President Clinton. Previously, he represented New Hampshire in the U.S. Senate from 1980 to 1992.

                JAMIE F. METZL is Senior Fellow and Coordinator for Homeland Security
                Programs at the Council on Foreign Relations. He has served on the National Security Council at the White House, in the Department of State, and as Deputy Staff Director of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

                RICHARD A. CLARKE- served under the last three presidents as a senior White House adviser.

                CHARLES G. BOYD- General Boyd served as Deputy Commander in Chief for the U.S. European Command.

                WILLIAM J. CROWE- served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

                JAMES KALLSTROM- served as Director of the Office of Public Security for the State of New York and Director of the NTSB.

                GEORGE P. SHULTZ- served as Secretary of State, Secretary of the
                Treasury, Secretary of Labor, and director of the Office of Management and Budget.

                JOHN W. VESSEY is Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations’ Center for Preventive Action and previously served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as well as Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nice to know we've not learned anything from 9-11, What will it take for the fat cat politicans to listen? Something worse than 9-11?

                  Why does it take a major tragedy to tell politicans something that we've known for how many years? Fire Department's are esstential and vital functions to helping inprove "homeland security"
                  Engine 101
                  The Pride of Old Town


                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeU8-8xSvMU

                  http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/Seagrave7/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think you really have to be realistic here. I have three thoughts.

                    1. Do you honestly want the federal government involved in direct funding of the fire service? I sure don't. Fire protection is a local proglem and should be locally funded. If there is a financial crisis or a special need, than there is a place for SUPPLEMENTAL funding (ala Fire Act). But the primary responsibility for fire service funding rests with the people who recieve the service.

                    2. I honestly believe that there has to be a more realistic way to distribute these homeland defense grants. There is no way that UBL hs Dogpatch, USA circles on his map. Do we really need to buy Dogpatch FD $100,000 in decon equipment? While we all have the potential to have to respond to a terrorist event, the reality is that there are places that are far more likely to be a target than others. Those locations should be taken care of first.

                    3. I am not terribly impressed by the people that wrote the report. It is full of guesses and assumptions that almost render it useless. I am always suspicious of these government doom and gloom reports. Also, there is not one single emergency responder on their committee.
                    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Also, there is not one single emergency responder on their committee.
                      EMERGENCY RESPONDERS ACTION GROUP MEMBERS*

                      AMERICAN COLLEGE OF EMERGENCY PHYSICIANS
                      AMERICAN HOSPITALS ASSOCIATION
                      AMERICAN VETERINARY MEDICAL ASSOCIATION
                      CENTURY FOUNDATION
                      COUNCIL OF STATE GOVERNMENTS
                      COUNTY EXECUTIVES OF AMERICA
                      INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF EMERGENCY MANAGERS
                      INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CHIEFS OF POLICE
                      INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE CHIEFS
                      INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE FIGHTERS
                      INTERNATIONAL CITY COUNTY MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATION
                      JOINT COMMISSION ON ACCREDITATION OF HEALTHCARE ORGANIZATIONS
                      NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES
                      NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTY AND CITY HEALTH OFFICIALS
                      NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIANS
                      NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PUBLIC HOSPITALS & HEALTH SYSTEMS
                      NATIONAL EMERGENCY NUMBER ASSOCIATION
                      NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION
                      NATIONAL LEAGUE OF CITIES
                      NATIONAL MEMORIAL INSTITUTE FOR THE PREVENTION OF TERRORISM
                      NATIONAL SHERIFF’S ASSOCIATION
                      NATIONAL VOLUNTEER FIRE COUNCIL
                      TRUST FOR AMERICA’S HEALTH
                      THE U.S. CONFERENCE OF MAYORS

                      * These organizations participated in the Emergency Responders Action Group that collected the data used
                      in our budgetary analysis. They do not necessarily endorse the Task Force findings.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Being part of "DogpatchVFD" George you are correct we don't need the gear that is needed in "BigtownFD", at the same time if we are called to help it would be nice to have the basics.There should be someone (or more)on these commities that have a working knowedge of Fire-Rescue.
                        Stay Safe ~ The Dragon Still Bites!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Emergency Responders: Drastically Underfunded, Dangerously Unprepared

                          Dangerously Unprepared... For what? What Bill Clinton said was just there to scare us, that there was no need for a national organization to defend and protect civilians in time of Man-Made Disaster? That kind of Emergency?

                          Until I began reading articles on these forums, I didn't know there was assistance available to organizations for disaster mitigation and preparedness. Don't get me wrong, we're not in the dark, it didn't just sneak up on us. There was training available to us, so we'd know what to look for in Bio-Terrorism situations. HazMat classes, Multiple Casualty Incident classes, Small pox, anthrax, everything you can think of since 9/11. Truth be told, I feel that agencies have be slightly overwhelmed. You can go through all the training, but then what? Unless you have a s**t load of supplies, what can you do except say "Don't touch it, stay away"..? NBC containment supplies, and Personnel Protection gear aren't cheap.
                          Why use up your budget for the year, "Just in case" ?
                          But you have to protect your community, you have to be there for them.
                          But whose here for us? You know the second the Gov't. moves in, your not going to be in the picture, just in the way. So how much will it cost?

                          Suppose you need to outfit EVERY single firefighter, emt, paramedic, and police officer in the United States (The "First Responders" to the situations) with a Chemical suit, SCBA, training, and necessary equipment.
                          I did some research.
                          There are 1,082,538 firefighter in the USA, 74% Volunteer, 26% Career. Of the total 31,114 fire departments in the country, 22,636 are all volunteer; 4,848 are mostly volunteer; 1,602 are mostly career; and 2,028 are all career. There are nearly 600,000 Registered EMTs and 142,000 Paramedics in the USA. There are 663,535 police officers in the USA, including town, state and sheriff's Depts.

                          How much does Training cost for One (1) person?
                          To "prepare" for a WMD or NBC situation-$500.00 per person

                          How much does equipment and gear cost for One (1) person?
                          SCBA-$1,700.00
                          BIO Safe Respirator-$299.00
                          NBC Safe Chemical Suit-$730.00

                          Cost - $3,229.00
                          --------------------------------------------------
                          Fire Personnel- $3,495,515,202.00
                          EMS Personnel- $2,395,918,000.00
                          Police Personnel- $2,142,554,515.00

                          Total for all: $8,033,987,717.00
                          --------------------------------------------------
                          If 1 in 10 Fire Dept's bought minimum equipment necessary to safely decontaminate their personnel the cost would amount to approx.
                          Per Dept. - $5,290.00
                          Total for all - $16,459,306.00

                          1 in 20 wants to buy a Mass Casualty Kit... 1,555.7
                          Per Dept. - $7,548.50
                          Total for all - $11,737,917.50

                          --------------------------------------------------

                          New York, L.A. & Chicago want to buy N95 masks for all it's residents
                          Population
                          NY- 1,541,150 - $2,080,552.5
                          LA- 9,979,600 - $13,472,460.00
                          Chicago- 2,896,016 - $3,909,621.60

                          Cost of one (1) mask- $1.35

                          Total Cost- $19,462,634.10
                          --------------------------------------------------
                          Everyone should have respiratory protection....
                          Population of USA- 284,796,887

                          Total Cost- $384,475,797.50

                          Total Cost to be slightly prepared by my standards:

                          $8,466,123,372.10

                          But of course, I didn't spend time to count everything thing that you'd need to treat people if something did happen... Medicine, oxygen, equipment for Hospital staff, triage supplies..... That'd amout to at least five times what I came to...
                          That's over $4233061686 (To the 10th).

                          I don't even know how much that is.... A lot? My calculator doesn't go that high. Just thinking of how much it would cost is terror in itself.

                          Can we ever be fully prepared?
                          Last edited by Dushore5741; 08-03-2003, 02:44 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Can we ever be fully prepared?
                            No, but we can always be better prepared.

                            I applaud your research and your numbers, however, you assume every firefighter needs to be equipped as opposed to the on shift or minimum manning per unit, in the volunteer's case.

                            Training? By all means, all of us.

                            Ya know something, it was the Senate who endorsed the study and it's the Senate who ignores the findings.

                            When NYC had the McKinsey Report done, it took steps to address the findings.

                            When someone in Washington decides to raise the Terror Alert to Orange they should also be ready to reach into their pockets and help some of the cities who's budgets get blown out of the water by that very stroke of the bureaucratic pen.

                            This report was not about grants and it was not about the Feds sending one dime directly to Littletown FD.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by E229Lt


                              EMERGENCY RESPONDERS ACTION GROUP MEMBERS*

                              AMERICAN COLLEGE OF EMERGENCY PHYSICIANS
                              AMERICAN HOSPITALS ASSOCIATION
                              AMERICAN VETERINARY MEDICAL ASSOCIATION
                              CENTURY FOUNDATION
                              COUNCIL OF STATE GOVERNMENTS
                              COUNTY EXECUTIVES OF AMERICA
                              INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF EMERGENCY MANAGERS
                              INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CHIEFS OF POLICE
                              INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE CHIEFS
                              INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE FIGHTERS
                              INTERNATIONAL CITY COUNTY MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATION
                              JOINT COMMISSION ON ACCREDITATION OF HEALTHCARE ORGANIZATIONS
                              NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES
                              NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTY AND CITY HEALTH OFFICIALS
                              NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIANS
                              NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PUBLIC HOSPITALS & HEALTH SYSTEMS
                              NATIONAL EMERGENCY NUMBER ASSOCIATION
                              NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION
                              NATIONAL LEAGUE OF CITIES
                              NATIONAL MEMORIAL INSTITUTE FOR THE PREVENTION OF TERRORISM
                              NATIONAL SHERIFF’S ASSOCIATION
                              NATIONAL VOLUNTEER FIRE COUNCIL
                              TRUST FOR AMERICA’S HEALTH
                              THE U.S. CONFERENCE OF MAYORS

                              * These organizations participated in the Emergency Responders Action Group that collected the data used
                              in our budgetary analysis. They do not necessarily endorse the Task Force findings.
                              OK. I see that there was adequate representation of emergency responders. But that doesn't diminish the shortcomings of the report.

                              I applaud your research and your numbers, however, you assume every firefighter needs to be equipped as opposed to the on shift or minimum manning per unit, in the volunteer's case.
                              Excellent point. It also doesn't address the equipment that is already out there.
                              When someone in Washington decides to raise the Terror Alert to Orange they should also be ready to reach into their pockets and help some of the cities who's budgets get blown out of the water by that very stroke of the bureaucratic pen.
                              Another excellent point. When we go Orange, because of our proximity to NYC (30 miles due West), we fire up the EOC and place it in a "turn the switch on" mode. We also cancel training and some time off for our critical people. We also have Intelligence people and WMD people on OT. That's just us. I can imagine what it must be like within that 30 mile circle.

                              If you have to go Orange, fine. But there should be a damn good, articulable, reason.
                              Last edited by GeorgeWendtCFI; 08-03-2003, 03:41 PM.
                              PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

                              Comment

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